"...if the President is scouting Canadian car technology to structure his energy policy, his priorities are even further out of order than we thought...but we digress."

Maybe you should digress a little less; I can't tell if you're [desperately] trying to work in a lame jab at the President, or insulting Canadian enterprise. Either way it's completely uncalled for.

Wow... even at the $6500 price mark I wouldn't see any savings for 12.5 years... but still cool i guess.

"Maybe you should digress a little less; I can't tell if you're [desperately] trying to work in a lame jab at the President"

Man, you sure work overtime defending Bush in post after post. I think he can fend for himself, for one, and it's a little silly to defend someone with an egregious attitude and record with respect to the natural environment.

I also work overtime defending the Canadians, but you don't seem to have anything to say about that. Riddle me this: are the impertinent and irrelevent remarks about Bush doing anything to make the world a cleaner, better place? Everytime Bush does something pro-environment only to be rewarded with backhanded sentiments, it marginalizes and polarizes people. The world isn't going to be saved by some chosen few who pride themselves on being 'treehuggers', it's going to be saved by everyone doing things a little cleaner and a little greener. So don't be mean... er. (Okay, that was a lame attempt at rhyming, but I had to go for it.)

I agree with Andrew. If someone from the left was making these speeches, there would be no negativity. Clean living is not political. If we stop trying to make it us vs. them maybe we could actually get something accomplished.

Oh, you want to talk about this some more?

As for your defending Canadians, I don't see what relevance this has to the current post, since they're not being discussed. I usually don't make it a habit of doing a complete personal analysis of someone in a little blog comment.

As for Bush "doing something pro-environment"? Ha! Saying something and doing something are two different things. And you certainly seem intelligent enough to discern a massive disconnect between the things he says and image he tries to cultivate on environmental issues, as contrasted with his actual policy actions. I'm not going to sit up and wag my tail every time he throws a little milk bone of rhetoric in a green direction. I'm not that foolish.

He is a major part of the problem, not the solution, so your comment about dealing with all this not being the exclusive domain of "treehuggers" is neither here nor there. You certainly don't have to lecture me on that -- as you know nothing about me or the work I do and have done on these things. My company's name is "cOgO". Do you know what that means? The latin meaning is "to bring together". I recognized long ago that progress won't be made my fractionalizing people, but I also know there's limits to that, and one of those limits is having a bullshit detector and knowing when someone's trying to greenwash me.

Knee-jerk needs to defend poor, downtrodden Bush are a little creepy, IMO. They are somewhat cultish and obsequoius.

Here in Boston, we pay $0.19/kWh which drastically reduces the cost savings relative to gasoline (the 6kWh pack would cost $1.12 to recharge, if that takes you 30 miles, you get the gas cost equivalent of 60MPG - almost nil savings over a non-plug in hybrid Prius). However, it is MUCH greener reduces gasoline consumption and thus strategically important to our energy policy.

@ Joseph: Ah! A flamewar... totally didn't see that coming. Since you're intent on hystrionics, I propose we simply ignore each other until we both go away. My daily om warned me about you anyway.

@ David: You're right about the cost savings. If there was a huge savings, the free market would have flocked to electric/hybrid solutions in the 90's when the technology first became practical. Even now, switching to hybrids only makes economic sense for fleet owners. On the individual basis it is a matter of preference. As the technology improves TCO will drop and soon everyone will look at having a pure gas vehicle as as much a novelty (read: quaint oddity) as having a carbeurated vehicle.

The comments on Green Car Congress are more interesting... one thing that's worth mentioning, Johnson Controls made the original battery in the hybrid Hummer prototype back in 1997. Many blame Johnson Controls for the hybrid Hummer remaining a black ops project. This is indeed just a desperate attempt by President Bush to regain control of the situation. Plug-ins are happening, empowering these people with any renewed business opportunities is counterproductive to the end goal, which is success in the marketplace!

Ah... sometimes one forgets where one is... my comments were related to Bush visiting the Johnson Controls factory to advocate Plug-In hybrids. That post is on the Green Car Congress website... Hymotion on the other hand seems like they are exactly what the doctor ordered... TreeHugger, when will you enable "edit" so one can fix one's own mistakes?

"Since you're intent on hystrionics..."

Man, you sure are an asshole. There's no histrionics in the least, but hey, let's devolve into namecalling and more nonsense. You're the one jumping in here starting the flames by going to bat for a clear enemy of all things "Treehugger". If you don't like flame wars, don't start them.

Good work avoiding the actual substance of my comment and going straight for the ad hominem, btw. Pat yourself on the back for that one.

I know I promised to ignore you, but you are apparently so hungry for a flame war that you're even responding to yourself. So now, for the sake of keeping my favorite eco site free of such infantile banality as this, feel free to mouse over my name for an address where we can continue this stupidity to it's patent and inevitable conclusion in accordance with Godwin's law.

"I know I promised to ignore you"

And I knew you wouldn't, since it's the hallmark of a troll like yourself to seek the last word.

This is Treehugger. People are going to bash Bush - and rightly so. If you're going to whine about it, maybe you shouldn't come here.

If you do, then you're obviously just looking to get a rise out of someone - and you found success on this thread.

As for your condescending comments about infantile banality and such - just piss off, OK? Stick to the topics and stop whining about "victim" Bush.

Hahaha!

If anyone's still reading this, witness mental illness on full display from our dear friend, Andrew.

http://www.andrewkrause.com/?q=node/167

Wow. Get some help, buddy. Or maybe get a girfriend or a teddy bear.

Wow.

Hehe. It appears Little Andy is still "ignoring" me over at his website by still talking about me.

In case you didn't catch it, here's a slice of his infantile response to all this, just so you can see where his little mind naturally gravitates:

"I'd hate to bump into this guy at a recycling center while wearing my Bush/Cheney t-shirt. He'd jack his jaw, and I'd have to beat him to a bloody pulp. (Violence as a solution to conflict is nothing less than a wing-nut leftwit like him would expect, and I don't like to disappoint.)"

Keep in mind this is from someone who complains about "histrionics" when someone asks him to stop coming to every thread where Bush is mentioned and whining about how "poor" Bush is being criticized - no matter if that critique is justified or not. It's simple cultish defending with no desire to actually speak to issues. And in a pattern I've seen time and again, he immediately turns to pathetic violence fantasies.

It's unfortunate that we all need to deal with trolls like this on the Internet, but I guess that's the price of freedom.

stunning.

LOL

You amuse me, Little Andy with your ongoing "ignoring" of me over at your pathetic little website. Why aren't you making your sad comments over here? Control freak or something? Looking for a little IP harvest?

What I'm enjoying most is seeing how further and further you get away from who I actually am and the more you keep building up some two-dimensional strawman that you feel "manly" in "beating". The irony, of course, is that this is a thread on PHEVs, a technology which I have been openly skeptical of, particularly at Green Car Congress. But the strawman version of myself is apparently an empty-headed granola muncher who goes to "recycling centers" (which is a funny notion in and of itself, and indicative of your absolute lack of knowledge of living in even a marginally sustainable way) and picks fights with tone-deaf Bush cultists with beer guts.

Please continue with "ignoring" me over at your little site. I'm fascinated watching you melt down more and more, and your need for strawmen instead of dealing with real people (which apparently is too much of a challenge for your peabrain).

Your hero has a 40% approval rating - which puts me in the solid MAJORITY of people who disapprove his job performance. But to a mushminded person like yourself, that makes me "fringe".

Guess community college education really doesn't offer mcuh there in coastal Carolina, does it, Little Andy? Perhaps you need to drive up I-40 in your little Mitsu and go to the Piedmont region. Maybe the eurdition of the area, and particularly in Durham, will clear some of the profound stupidity from your head.

Carry on. Keep up the "ignoring".

Haha.

Joe, your a psychopath.

The pathetic part about this is I surfed into treehugger in the mistaken belief I might have discovered a community of people willing to put aside differences in search of ideas and ideals which might save the planet. Nope, it's just another place where the thin veneer of idealism is utterly wiped away by narrowmindedness at the drop of a hat.
The fact the first clown tried to get cheap laughs by suggesting there's nothing worth learning from Canadians is so moronic I have no idea why anyone bothered to comment.
The fact this somehow then was twisted into an argument over whether people should be supporting unpopular politicians when they have good ideas is even stupider.
The fact it's all devolved into a "sticks and stones" name-calling contest is just pathetic.
How on earth we expect to make the world a better place when something this trivial can completely derail a topic is beyond me.
Grow up kids.

Please people, try to keep it on-topic and cordial, and take the other stuff to email. It doesn't belong on a public forum. Thank you.

I want to apologize to the Treehugger community for my part in this. I posted a flame at my personal website hoping to goad Willamssen into continuous his pedantry over there, thinking it would spare this space from the juvenile behavior that has since resulted. Obviously, that tactic didn't work, and now Willamssen is doing his level best to disrupt any other thread I'm in. If he doesn't see reason, then I'll contact site management to try to resolve this in a peacable manner.

"If he doesn't see reason, then I'll contact site management to try to resolve this in a peacable manner."

lol - and if they don't, you'll "beat them to a bloody pulp", right? That seems to be your natural response mechanism. That's what you said you'd do to me when I had the temerity to actually challenge you.

And don't worry, Andy. I screen grabbed your screed (along with its threats of violence), because I knew you'd take it down and pretend to be reasonable and the "victim". I also forwarded it to the "site management", so they know what you're up to.

I've been around, and I've seen this sort of behavior many times. If anyone falls for your trolling, they're dumber than you are.

Please guys! Just ignore each other. You know that nobody is going to "win" this, and even if you "won", it wouldn't be worth much.

Take it to email if you really want to continue, but this is not the place. Thank you.

I do all my driving on one car within 10 miles of my home, 3000 miles per year. Assuming I would never turn over the ICE, my MPG would be infinite. So my payback would be 9-12 months. Cool.

I completely lost all interest in this site after reading the opening remarks about the President. I came here to learn more about PHEV and potential conversion for my Prius. Not low blows at the U.S. President. Myself and my potential business are off to find other sites of interest minus the lame and patheticly stale Bush humor.

I completely lost all interest in this site after reading the opening remarks about the President. I came here to learn more about PHEV and potential conversion for my Prius. Not low blows at the U.S. President. Myself and my potential business are off to find other sites of interest minus the lame and patheticly stale Bush humor.

You can say what you like about the President, but if you'll do a little research on the Prez. you would know that while he was Governor of Texas, he started a wind farm, which has grown into the largest in the continental United States (it's still growing) and it supplies more power to more homes than any other wind farm in the U.S. I guess he was doing that you know, to make the oil prices rise so he could make more $$. You people always having to bash someone. What's wrong with staying on the topic of plug-in hybrids and NOT making everything in your life about blaming others and making others look bad. Try it for once.....It's FUN!

but if you'll do a little research on the Prez. you would know that while he was Governor of Texas, he started a wind farm, which has grown into the largest in the continental United States (it's still growing) and it supplies more power to more homes than any other wind farm in the U.S.

Funny how these kinds of silly claims never come with a link, just requests to "go research."

Super Bush is now a wind pioneer.

Newsflash, Freeper - Bush failed at every single business venture he ever pursued and is a silver spoon who has had everything handed to him. That you worship him speaks volumes about you, since he would just as soon run you over as shake your hand.

This Joe guy needs anger management.

And I agree - can we drop the anti-bush stuff just for a few minutes. I want environmental information ... not propaganda or infant rage.

And yes... Bush made it possible for Texas to become the leader in Windpower.... but like any politician he is less responsible than the entrepreneurs that make all economic growth possible.

Mike
(intelligent and civil)

I have a 2005 Prius and am seriously looking at installing a hybrid plug-in kit. This seems to be the only currently viable solution to further reduce dependence on oil. Everyone I have talked to has said to wait until a new president is elected because the current administration is not going to support this with tax incentives and that, in fact, this administration helped to kill the last electric car effort. What do you all think? Maybe this is actually the best time to buy just in case the next president helps to try to also kill this technology?