SUV's not safer for Kids

I have often thought that even if they were 'safer' certainly high emissions and all they this entails is far from desireable! We can make cars safer AND raise CAFE standards instead of worrying about equipping every car with a dvd player.

IMHO: Another misleading study about safety. It only looks at data once crashes have occurred. On average, cars are more manueverable and stop quicker, thereby avoiding many crashes that larger SUVs can't. This is ignored by the study.

Not to mention that SUVs and pickup trucks have a tendency to back up on small children a lot more than cars since you usually just can't see them when they're behind.

Uh, I notice the study does not mention how many of the 4000 children were properly secured in a seat belt. Also, how many of the SUV's were being driven in the manner they are designed.

Bottom line, SUV's and trucks, if driven properly and one uses seatbelts, are far safer than regular passenger cars.

Three cars behind an SUV on the Highway near Golden I got to witness firsthand the frightening instability of at least this model.

The driver swerved a bit to avoid debris (fallen rocks are common in the mountains) in a maneuver I wouldn't have thought twice about making in my car at the same speed (about 70km/hr).

The front tire folded under the chassis, and SUV went up and over like a bomb had gone off under it, rolled three times, and climbed up the mountain-wall before falling onto it's side near the shoulder of the road.

The result was (thankfully) only minor injuries all 'round, one of the two children had either a sprained or broken wrist, the (unsecured) family cat had scratched the other up during the crash, and the driver broke his ankle. All of which might be proof that the safety equipment worked, but the accident wouldn't have happened at all in any vehicle with a lower center of gravity and less mass to shift onto that front axle.

In my opinion, SUV are much closer to catastrophe than people realize while driving them. All that mass and size don't make up for, and may aggravate, the consequences of driver error.

"Bottom line, SUV's and trucks, if driven properly and one uses seatbelts, are far safer than regular passenger cars."

That kind of argumentation really doesn't tell us much, does it?

Are you saying that a well-engineered passenger vehicle with all the modern safety technology is less safe than a truck from the 1930s?

Every vehicle is designed to optimize certain things. Trucks and SUVs may be beter-equipped in terms of ground clearance, but then that raises the center of gravity and then makes it more prone to rollover relative to a vehicle with the same width. More mass may mean better crash protection, all things being equal, but it also increases stopping distance, reduces maneuverability, etc.

The reason we rely on real-world statistics is that they wash out all the confounding factors and show us how these design choices play out in terms of real-world safety. And in that real world, there are plenty of cars which are safer than certain trucks and SUVs.

To give one example where your generalization won't hold -- say there's a couple inches of snow with a lot of ice underneath. Is it better to have a small treadwidth, front wheel drive vehicle with ABS, traction control, front and side airbags, or a front-heavy rear wheel drive truck with wide tires, no ABS, no traction control, and no airbags? The former is far more likely to not get into a crash in the first place, and therefore is going to be much safer.

In sum, your generalization doesn't hold.

Sorry but LIBERALS DONT LIKE SUVS ANYWAYS. My wife was broad sided by a person traveling at 65 MPH,then was pushed 30+ feet into a ditch.Every officer that came on site from the ELK GROVE,CA police dept stated the follwing " Thank God these kids were in an Excursion because without this SUV someone dies here"All three of my children were in the back seat that was pushed in over 2 1/2 feet,other than some frayed nerves and a little glass cut all were okay.I will never as long as I have my 3 little girls drive anything less than 7,000 pounds of steel........Answer me this how many MPG is your childs life worth????.I get 8-11 MPG in my Excursion and woudnt have it any other way.Its MY MONEY AND I WILL SPEND IT AS I PLEASE AND IF IT MEANS SOME OF YOU FREAKS HAVE TO DRIVE KIA'S OR GEO'S TO SAVE MORE FUEL FOR ME THEN LET IT BE.In closing just watch out because just as you are angry with me and what I drive ...I would just as soon run you off the road that to look at you, And the nice part is I can run you off the road and not even know or care

Physically speaking, weight of a car does not and can not provide any kind of safety. It is the structural materials ability to withstand and absorb the kinetic energy of a moving vehicle that matters. Traditionally, the more material there is, the more this ability it provides. This is only half of the truth nowadays and intelligent structural designs can do the same with less material. The problem is, though, that the more material you have, the more kinetic energy there is to be absorbed by car structures or human tissues.
E=1/2*mv^2
Therefore the heavier the vehicles on roads in general are the bigger the problem is in a cases of accidents. SUV-makers safety arguments are false in terms of traffic safety in general but make sense for those, who are ahead in the arms race of having bigger and bigger vehicles. Drivers of lighter vehicles avoid many accidents as drivers' reaction times are more or less the same and wheels friction against the road in breaking does not grow in relation to the vehicle size. Therefore heavier vehicle requires longer distance for breaking to halt. Also their inertia reduce their maneuverability. Therefore heavier vehicles cause collisions and increase the overall traffic fatalities and injuries although in many cases the ones driving lighter vehicles and colliding with the heavier vehicles are more likely to die or get injured.

"Bottom line, SUV's and trucks, if driven properly and one uses seatbelts, are far safer than regular passenger cars."

The seatbelts we all have in our vehicles were never designed to keep you planted in the seat in the event of a rollover. That's why you see so many neck injuries and paralysis resulting from said accidents.

Dennis -- for every trend there is an anecdote where the trend is bucked; yours is one. The tendency with LARGE suv's is that:

1. They cause more accidents due to the stopping power noted above.
2. They kill more people in the other cars than cars. (We are glad your kids are seem safe to you, but you do not have the right to endanger mine).
3. Large SUVs kill more pedestrians than cars.
4. Large SUVs kill more children due to (a) increased stopping distance and inability to handle dart out accidents and (b) backing over children, especially who run out to say goodbye when no one is looking.
5. Are actually illegal in some cities (those over 6000 lbs gross) because they are restricted to truck routes. Pasadena California, where the Rosebowl is about to kickoff in 90 minutes, is one of these. IF you are outside of the limited, designated truck route in these vehicles, you can be held liable for ANY accident, even if not your fault.

All in all, they are a greater hazard to your kids continued health than not, even though some folks felt that they may have been helped in this case you reported. Also, it is entirely possible that, had she been in a smaller car, your wife would have been more cautious and been able to see better the car coming at her, and would not have been in the accident at all. (This is a common problem with SUVs, because they can't stop well, but also because people feel invincible they tend to drive much more aggressively than they realize.)

"Bottom line, SUV's and trucks, if driven properly and one uses seatbelts, are far safer than regular passenger cars."

If only the average SUV owner knew how to drive their vehicle properly. Look at how many vehicles end up in ditches when the roads get icy - they're almost always SUVs.

Dennis needs to consider that when SUVs the size of his hit cars like mine( honda civic) the weight that he loves becomes the killer. Unfortunately the technology that can produce lightweight ( read energy effecient) but impact absorbing car frames is hogtied by legislation that equates weight to safety( probably paid for by the steel industry)

First and foremost we must ask why does an accidenthappen?
Most of the time its driver error. And people in suvs are very rude. ie I was in the car with my friend and we were heading to work. This red ford explorer cut across three lanes and then when we get to the light she is doing a dance and laughing at as about cutting us off. NO warning No turn signal nothing...
This happens all the time in dallas. They dont use turn signals- they will ride your bumper to get you to drive faster than the speed limit and they are the cause of most accidents because they are rude plain and simple.

I was driving to work in grape vine. I needed to get over on to 114 and this guy in a tahoe deciieded to speed up rather than let me over. So I slowed down. Well he slowed down- kept right on pacing me. I Honked my horn at him and he thought it was funny. I then picked up my cell phone so turned it on so he could see it- and got scared I was calling the police. HE let me over. There are several cases in the news here in dallas where rudeness of suv drivers is the reason for an accident...LIke the guy who recently was in a big mini van riding these peoples bumper to get them to go faster. Well he went around them, clipped their bumper and killed a car full of people and a child I am told.

See People who drive these suvs should be requied to get a special license, I drove fork lifts. I was required to get a special license and qaulify with it. They should make anyone who drives one of those suvs go through a road test and if they fail deny the license. simple. Also really there should be more heavy enforcement on illegal lane changes and not using the turn signals. I have seen women on cell phones and ladies it is mostly us who do this...On cell phones chatting away not paying attention and causing accidents. LIke the one I read about where the motorcyclist had to get off his bike at 50 mph and slide on pavement because some woman in an suv on a cell phone decided to stop suddenly at a green light! She drove away. OBliviouse that she had hurt someone.
HEre is a tip. IF you are going to drive you need to get a blue tooth adaptor or hands free. cuz really doing anything else is irresponcible more so in my oppinion than driving wile intoxicated. INtoxicated people can not concetrate or focus to drive. Same with people who are on the cell phone dialing and chatting while holding a phone to their ear.

MY blue tooth adaptor cost 30 dollars. It takes 2 mins to turn it on and it has voice dialing. How hard is it to buy one of these? I mean if you consider that all these suv drivers can fork out the cash to buy or make payments on one of these honkin suvs, they should be able to get blue tooth or hands free. NO? And then there are the idiots who play dvds in the front of the car. I have been driving cars and motorcycles for over 20 years. I am no where good enough to drive while distracted with a movie. And for those of you in texas I believe its still illegal to do have a dvd screen in the front of your car.
I think perhaps the main reason for all the accidents is the rudeness. Not the lack of driver know-how not the cell phone but plain rudeness...It seems to me that it is a fad now to drive and be rude amoungst suvers. I used to drive a fiero- One of the most nimble cars ever produced. I Have had them try to ram me from behind and harass me because my car was very small. When I out run them and go around hair pin turns most of them are not fool enough to try to keep up but I had one try and he learned a valuble lesson. I saw his passenger side wheels come off the road and he nearly lost it. STUPID. I Have had people try the same with me while driving my New beetle. WHat is wrong with these morons who think they can drive these big trucks like a car. Especially a low fast car or machine designed for hugging the road like a fiero or crx?
I have a friend who put the v8 archey kit in his fiero...amazing how fast the car was with a v8 in it. Well Some moron tried to duplicate what he did while going around a curve rated for 40mph- and my friend said the suv driver clipped a pole. Ya know people, you can die at 15mph imagine clipping a pole at 60mph...

I have seen some devestating accidents. One was so bad that they had to take out embedded car door part and a beer can from a persons stomach. nNother was cut nearly in two from hitting a pole. Very stupid. Im sorry to say. When I drive I am watching behind me and in front as well as side to side. And really I plan to use dvi on my side front and back of my car linked to my car puter so I can record my trip. Now I do that with my regular Digital camera velcroed to the dash of my car some times now. Because these people out here drive like morons. But that is not enough. You cant imagine how bad it was on xmass eve...I had to drive to work and nearly got nailed 3 times!
We should make all these sheeple learn to drive end of story.
Yes I say lets lobbby for suv licenseing requirements.

This reminds me of an episode of “ER”. A guy driving a Hummer is all glad he had his giant SUV to protect him during an accident. However, his giant SUV destroyed the other vehicle and killed its passengers.

It just shows how selfish SUV drivers are: they impact the environment, take up too much space, waste too much gas, and cause more accidents and/or make accidents much worst.

And to respond to the comment "Bottom line, SUV's and trucks, if driven properly ..." When was the last time you saw one driven properly. I witnessed at least 15 SUVs on my way to work this morning, weaving in and out of traffic with no turn signals, tailgating, or just generally not paying attention since the driver was on the phone.

Dennis already expressed his lack of concern for you, me, and all the other drivers of more modest vehicles, Thomas.

"I would just as soon run you off the road that to look at you, And the nice part is I can run you off the road and not even know or care."

Most human beings would at least care, so I'm guessing Dennis is a troll.

Dennis - since when does it matter if you are a liberal or republican? that has nothing to do with the fact that you my friend are the very reason the roads are unsafe.

I purchased a smaller car because it is low and fast- not because I can not afford some ugly slow suv. And unlike you I dont have to hide the fact that my suv is really a mini van by darkening the windows.' Oh yes lets go on the expedition to the soccer field and get our mutant children...' lets go out and explore the pta!!! lets jump in the Yukon and go on an EXPEDITION to the Little League game and then afterwards we can EXPLORE Ihop...
Ya know if you people would Explore some road manners and learn to drive your rediculous metal behemoths there would be less and less accidents on the way to walmart. If you car pooled there would be less traffic back ups...less accidents, less polution and a lot safer roads.
You obvioulsly think that you can do what ever you want on the road. You are in error... Let me state that it is exactly your kind of attitude that causes loss of life. You sir should not have a license but I am sure you would drive without one anyway. And your statement "Sorry but LIBERALS DONT LIKE SUVS ANYWAYS." Is about the stupidist thing I have ever heard. And tell me something, how can you embrace such arrogance and a total lack of concern? is that some kind of new driver fad. Have you ever seen how a body looks mangled and twisted after an accident? I have. i have seen plenty and they are images that will stay with you. You seem to think this is a big joke, Let me tell ya cops are starting to pull your kind over.

My brother got a guy like you once who had that same attitude. He was driving 90 on the freeway riding bumpers. He didnt give him a ticket...No he took that sob dirrectly to jail...where some one like you and him belong. Where I live there is starting to be a new non-tolerance for road raging suv drivers, there are cameras everywhere and signs posted to call about road violence. I think that if you tried to harrass me on the road I would pick up my cell and call the police. They would take your tag and have you nailed even if it took them waiting for you at home. AND MY FRIEND, WITH THE INSTALLATION OF HI RES DIGITAL CAMS ON THE BACK FRONT AND SIDES OF MY CAR I CAN SUBMIT FOR CRIMIATL PROSECUTION...See by your statement alone your internt is physical harm. That can be interpreted as intent to commit a felony. Intent alone is enought to jail you if taken to court. If I showed my evidence to the court... You would by very minimal loose your license and pay a fee. But if I were prosecuting the case you would serve time for intent to kill. Attempted murder. That is what you are describing in your little post.

the statement made by you ".I would just as soon run you off the road that to look at you, And the nice part is I can run you off the road and not even know or care" demonstates intent to harm another human being (WOMEN CHILDREN MEN PEOPLE WITH LIVES WHO JUST LIKE YOU DESERVE TO GET TO THEIR DESTINATIONS SAFELY)with your vehicle. I would put you in with the lowest form of criminal I could find. i really think you need to take a step back and check yourself spud. Because you wrong and if you continue with that attitude I think you will hurt or kill someone. And to say the least you are asking for Karma to come and bite you on the azz I hope it does...Because otherwise someone like you is beyound redemption.
and I think you are 3 kinds of stupid.
your time is comming. You are f'd on the karma level spud.

AnaW
the episode involved a Humvee and a Fiero.
The fiero is a very fast agile little car. Pontiac doesnt make them anymore and they are a collectors item. They dont rust and you can easily put a v8 in them. and they are reported to go over 160 mph.
Since the engine is mounted in the rear. The car can corner like a porshe 911 and then some.
-Fiero information-
People in humvee do drive like uber morons I Have encountered them on many occasions. They dont use turn signals. They barge in or try to run you off the road. Here is what I do People. Since I car pool I have my 5 mega pixel camera with me. I either mount it on the dash or I grab it(when not driving) and film all kinds of dirver rage. We should all do that. Maybe put some of these Rude suv people in jail...they might learn a lesson.

I have a friend whose company added an H2 to their corporate vehicle fleet. Employees stopped driving it. Not because of the poor mileage. ( Company card for gas ). Not because of poor visibility. (Not the worst in their fleet)

Why? Because they got tired of getting the finger from everyone, getting an earful in parking lots, etc.

As he put it, "You have no idea how hated a Hummer is until you drive one."

The Hummer is the poster-child for conspicuous overconsumption. It uses waste as a territorial display. People in my neck of the woods tend to reacte negatively to that.

Of course, this kind of negative feedback helps to explain why the guy in the Hummer drives like a moron - he's angry that no one is giving him the respect he thought he paid for.

If you want to protect your kids get a medium or large car NOT AN SUV. If design was equal between cars and SUV's the bigger SUV would be safer, but its not. We all know they tip and they have poor roofs. If you want the safest vehicle it would be a large car, something like a Ford 500, Chevrolet Malibu or Audi A4. Those cars are far safer then most SUV's even in crashes with SUV's. Best part, they are less likley to crash then an SUV. And you can drive one without putting others at much greater risk .

As a research scientist with a PhD and 25 years experience, as well as experience as a law enforcement officer in a large east coast city, all I can say is that "Science" must be coming very close to losing any consistency with common sense. Of course children are safer in SUV's. Of course. If you want politically correct "science" that confirms your leftist prejudices, your prayers are answered. Now, even the health and safety of young children are to be offered up on the alter of modern Leftism. How have we sunk so far?

Hmm the gentleman in the humvee may be upset due to lack of respect but that does not give him the right to drive rudely...
I suspect that if you are polite on the road and use your turn signals...If you show other people courtesey I think that most people would recipocate.

I was traveling to grapevine (texas) one time last year. This man in a humvee was very polite and even used turn signals. by contrast the ford expedition beside him wouldnt let anyone pass. HE would speed up to try an block people. I nearly missed my turn because of his sillyness. Stuff like this proves that rudeness on the road causes accidents and if we were to try politeness and manners we would prob see safer roads. Unfortunately it seems to me that most of the rude drivers are women in SUvs. As a woman myself I find that puzzleing...Do women in big trucks and suvs undergo a personality change on getting in their vehicle? stange. Also the other people that drive the mercedes and bmws are just as bad. YEs they are just as rude...I was comming home through the colony and this lady in a mercedes forced me over when the lane merged so she could remain ahead. I was in the correct lane and she was in the get over lane. I being alerted to her attack quickly geared down and got behind her. I almost called the police...I saw her laughing about it...SO when we got to the light where the left lane turned I pulled up beside her and rolled my window down and explained how stupid it is to drive that way when someone is filming her...she was speechless. I suppose she will think twice about doing that again.
Myabe these people just need some form of therapy to be nice people...

When someone needs to get over and has there turn signal on then you should let them in.

You should always use a hands free device when useing your cell phone.
I suggest blue tooth...

before the trip check your car. make sure your fuel level is ok...

Turn signals are very important- always always always signal!

keep the distractions to a minimal

watch out for motorcycles

watch out for yeild signs and on comming traffic

watch out for pedestrians and animals
you would not believe how damaging it is to hit a deer or a moose- or some big animal on the road. I used to live in indiana and I have seen some really bad accidents because people in trucks think they can hit a deer or moose and not damage their vehicle or get in an accident.

just a few small things will make a difference

the other day. I saw somone in a chevy tracker who had it filled almost to the cieling with news papers. NOw is that safe? this person obviously makes his living with the news papers so he must do this everyday. I wonder if he has any idea at how dangerous that is...

I saw another person who had oviously velcroed a psp to his steering wheel... I saw him playing while we were stuck in traffic on 121. I carefully watched him and saw him nearly rear end the car in front of him 4 times. It would be ironic if he were playing a racing game...

Now, even the health and safety of young children are to be offered up on the alter of modern Leftism. How have we sunk so far?

The perceived higher safery of SUVs for children INSIDE them is the only benefit they have.

Poor visibility = running over kids outside the vehicle more.

Bad fuel economy = pollution. Wonder why so many young kids have asthma these days? Having asthma was rare for kids 20 years ago. I only knew 2-3 kids in elementary school with "puffers".

Yeah, Giant SUVs are REAL safe. Sure.

-Now, even the health and safety of young children are to be offered up on the alter of modern Leftism. How have we sunk so far?-

That is about the stupidist think I have ever read. Tell me something...since when do politics have anytning to do with what people drive. Science and engineerng. Studies and technology are what we are talking about. Not politics you moron. If you where paying attention you would know we are talking about safety on the roads and not politics. We are discussing facts not speculation. which apparently you know nothing about. Because if you did you wouldnt put such stupid comments in here and demonstrate for us that you apparently are mentally challenged.

I doubt very seriously you are anything close to a research scientist or a cop. Suvs Are unsafe because people dont know how to drive them.
Do the statistics lie? Are all the roll overs that happen just leftist propaganda?
Dumb

Like guns, SUVs are not to be blamed, the people who abuse them are. Infact, almost all the problems in the world should be blamed on people. Selfish-self absorb people like me & you, who tend to act like the master of the world.

Who can afford to drive a SUV with gas prices like they are (without going into debt - anybody can be reckless with their credit card, it doesn't mean you have the money to pay for it). and now these people are out on the road with a heavier vehicle that isn't paid for (and neither is the gasoline) being a public menace to society and causing the cost of living to go up for the rest of us. Then they claim bankruptcy and all the gas is burned and unpaid for, This is like legally stealing gas at the pump. Where can we draw the line to protect natural resources and lives?