Update on the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid

Don't forget to educate your foot on efficient driving techniques!

I just broke my 4.0 L/100km record and averaged 3.9L/100km (just over 60mpg) on my return trip from Kingston to Ottawa (~160km) yesterday. (2003 HCH)

I am a Toyota Prius 2005 owner and although I absolutely love it, I only average about 38mpg at best. Most people I talk to also average around 40mpg. I hope the HONDA HYBRID will honestly state their MPG for consumers so we can have technology shoot for higher. I know everyone has different driving patterns, but come on... no one I have spoken to who owns a Prius gets the designated mpg.

"but come on... no one I have spoken to who owns a Prius gets the designated mpg."

Hi, Dorrie. Here's a list of real-world fuel efficiency data:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/toyota-priushsd.html

They have fairly active discussion boards on that site. I'm sure that plenty of people there can help you get better mileage out of your vehicle if you ask for assistance.

Dorrie,

That's weird, most people I talk to get high 40s-low 50s during the summer and low 40s during the winter (in the north) with their Prius.

Have you checked tire pressure lately? Maybe your tires are almost flat or something...

Oh, another things: All cars are at their most inefficient during the first few minutes of driving because the engine is cold. Could it be that most of your car trips are very short? Their could explain the low mpg -- the car never has time to get at its most efficient!

One minor correction to the post is that (as far as I know) it's not that Honda doesn't already make AT-PZEV vehicles -- it's just that not all their vehicles are AT-PZEV. For 2005 and earlier there are different versions: AT-PZEV versions with very low emissions and somewhat smaller gas tanks for so-called 'clean' states, and a ULEV version for the rest of the states. It looks like they'll only be making and selling AT-PZEV versions of their hybrids from 2006 onwards.

Dorrie-

How many miles do you have on yours? Our mileage went up a bunch after the car had 5k-10k miles on it. We get anywhere from 42-51 depending on the season and the type of driving we do. We're also in Denver, which probably costs us a couple mpg (altitude). I actually think the 50mpg highway rating is about spot on. The 60mpg city rating is way high in my experience.

Blame the EPA test protocol, not Toyota and Honda.

I drive a 1981 diesel VW Rabbit. I average about 45 mpg which seems on par or even better than some hybrids. So I have to ask - why all the fuss about hybrids? Why isn't everyone out there demanding diesel powered cars? I know the emissions aren't the best, but it will run on vegetable oil if you ask it to!

Jen,

4 Reasons:

1. As you pointed out, the emissions (particulates, NOx, etc.) are much higher for diesel.

2. Performance. Even a relatively pokey Prius will dust a diesel Rabbit.

3. Safety. Your Rabbit gets that mileage because it is small and light. Cars today are stuffed with things like crumple zones and airbags that drive the weight up. A Rabbit is also too small for most people to carry their family around.

4. Perception. The diesel cars produced in response to the 70's oil shocks were mostly dreadful (the Rabbit was one of the few good ones). People still have not gotten over that, although the newer Volkswagens and Mercedes have helped to reverse those perceptions.

Of course, someone is eventually going to make a diesel hybrid which, when combined with improvements in diesel formulation and emission control, is going to be a great solution.

Will the new hybrid still fall into the electric-assist category? Last I checked, the Honda hybrids were categorized as such because the gas engine never fully shut off.

"Will the new hybrid still fall into the electric-assist category? Last I checked, the Honda hybrids were categorized as such because the gas engine never fully shut off."

I believe it is still an "assist hybrid". This model has the engine stop igniting the cylinders, but since the electric motor is part of the transmission, the engine still turns even if the cylinders are sealed.

Plus, Honda still call their system the IMA (Integrated Motor Assist).

Scott,

A '81 Rabbit is a pokey turd for sure, but a later model TDI model VW isn't and will dust a Prius hands down and the emissions are improved as well and will continue just as gas emngines have. Go Bio!

I'm excited about the new Civic Hybrid! I thought my mind was made up regarding my next car purchase with the Prius, but I'm liking this new Civic Hybrid. When it comes to the hybrid technology, how does it compare to the Prius? Is the Prius still the most effective and advanced?

My parents have a 2001 Prius and regularly see 54 or 55mpg.

Maybe you're not driving it right...

Maria: yes, the prius is still most efficient. Consider this: The Prius can regenerate electricity and accelerate with electricity at the same time. Why? because it utilizes two electric motors, not one. If the Prius is using the gasoline engine and determines that extra energy is not needed from the gasoline engine, it can recapture that excess energy.

But besides that, you'll still probably want a Prius because its REAR SEATS CAN FOLD DOWN! The new civic hybrid STILL can't because of the hybrid battery.

I hope others will not be taken in by Hondascam 2006 as I was w/ the '03 civic hybrid. This is a "pretend hybrid" which will frustrate most drivers trying to save money on gas, especially if they see the constantly fully charged battery and grossly inflated fuel economy display. Given an unauthorized modification and by driving outside the law (speeding down hills, obstructing the flow of traffic, and coasting with the engine off), good milage around 50 can sometimes be attained in the '03. Most drivers will see less. Any new hybrid buyer must understand that anything that affects a regular car's milage will affect a hybrid's 5-fold - thus the poor milage in cold, short trips, wind, city driving, roof racks, highway driving, and rain. It gets great milage next to an SUV and is a fine car like a corolla, but it is not what Honda says it is. Don't expect the 2006 to be any different with its 15 kW bicycle motor. (Vote plug-in hybrids! I can't wait 'til more battery is crammed into these hybids and we can plug them into our windmill/solar/kinetic energy storage devices at home.)

boo, auto manufacturers are required by law in the U.S. to post the EPA mileage estimates. Since EPA, not Honda, reached the 47/48 conclusion, that is what Honda has to say it gets, even though it doesn't really. Similarly, it is almost impossible to reach 60mpg with the Prius, even though that's its EPA highway mileage figure.

I doubt very much a TDI VW in the Jetta will dust a Prius. First off, the TDI is dirty which is why it's not sold in CA/NY/VT/ME/MA. Secondly, numerous road tests have shown that the Prius out accelerates the TDI from 0-60 (assuming the TDI is auto). I get over 50 mpg with my Prius. I also don't have to visit the dealer as often. VW has a terrible dealer network and their reliability is on the bottom of the charts.

I am in the market for a new Civic Hybrid, but I also live most of the year in a Motor Home, and tow a car. Can I tow the Civic with all four wheels on the ground?
I know people tow Honda's Accords, and Odysseys, and Honda does not say yes or no.

I have an 2000 insight and in Vancouver, BC I get 55-58 mpg. I went to calgary with only one tank (40 lts) and there I got 80-100 mpg (because is flat...)

Shure I can move only another person and is not powerful up hill, but is the MORE ECONOMY GASOLINE CAR IN THE WORLD. Even beats at the smart car from mercedes benz.

Muffin

About 8 months ago, I purchased a 1981 Mercedes 300 diesel with 375,000 miles. It was previously owned by a mercedes shop owner. The motor should be good for another 125,000 miles. I was able to fill up with biodiesel once then the suppliers started running out of the fuel. MPG is around 27, the car is very substantial. I am becoming a fan of diesels and feel they are the hope for the future. I have heard of volkswagon buyers installing performance chips and running their golfs up to 175 horsepower and still maintaining a 45 mpg rate. That will smoke any prius or civic.

Hi

I own a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, and I get at least 40 MPG. I think this hybrid was rated at 44 MPG when I bought it in 2003, and sometimes I do think I get 44 MPG. Anyway, my comment is for people who own newer models and not getting the mileage they expect with their new hybrids. I think it is partly due to the AC system. My car was one of the newer models, and when my car stops AC also shuts off, so I am sure I am conserving even more gas and keeping to the rated MPG compared to people who still have their AC running when the car stops.

Hi,
I am wondering where all the Hybrid owners are going to take their battery packs when they are no longer able to hold a charge. What is it going to cost? Are you going to send these packs back to Japan or will they fill up the HazWaste sites here in the states?
Maybe the public should ask for a "slimmer" auto, an old technology, which will increase MPG!

Mike K.,

I agree with you on the need for "slimmer" cars, but I disagree about hybrid batteries.

I still can't understand why they are a target; all cars have batteries, yet nobody complains about these. At least hybrid batteries are beneficial and keep TONS of oil from being burned and TONS of CO2 and smog-forming emissions from being put into the air. Few parts of a car can be said to be beneficial like that (except maybe the catalytic converter).

Besides, we've already done research on hybrid batteries on this website (use the search engine on the right to find the article) and the batteries are recyclable and should last the life of the vehicle (even up to 15-20 years! these are not flashlight batteries..).

My '89 Crown Victoria will get 30 Imperial MPG on the highway. Considering the aerodynamics are terrible, and the car is least 2-3 times the weight of a Civic or Insight respectfully, the mileage is good. I have driven a 2001 Honda Civic and got 45 MPG. If my CV is twice the weight and a rotton wind slicer compared to the Civic and I don't have to dish out 20 grand than that is good for me. The longer I keep it the better it is for the environment. If I buy a new car than that is energy to make the new car plus iron ore and oil consumed for plastics etc. Get the max. use of the resources which built the CV. If I have to make payments for a new car than I would probably have to work somewheres on the weekend or eves. and burn even more fuel to go to work more often. Amen

Well, all I have to say is that I just bought a new civic (no, not a hybrid, sorry) to replace my 1990 dodge dakota (14 or 15 mpg was it's best). hybrid shmybrid--I can rally it all I want and drive 80+ miles an hour on the freeway (the speed limit is 75, which should be a big gas waster, but it's far between places here), and I can still get 33 mpg or better. Sure I paid a penny or two for it, but it was a lot cheaper than either the prius or civic hybrid, or the jetta tdi, for that matter. AND I don't have to worry about the batteries (in the hybrids) or my insturment panel or window switches or pretty much anything run by electricity (in the jettas) ceasing to work.

I own a 2005 Civic Hybrid and just made a round trip to Calgary from Spokane, Wa. Averaged 45 + both ways, pushing the speed limit a little. Took a little less than 3/4 tank each way. Boy gas is high in Canada $3.60 - $4.00 US per Gal. Around town I average an honest 50 and 45 on the freeway at 70 mph. Plenty of power to pass and excellent braking. If the 2006 is any better, I'll buy a second one. Going to look at the Accord pretty hard too. I am 6'5" and cannot get into a Prius or Highlander because of lack of headroom.

I bought the 2005 Prius in June. I don't drive in any particular way and I always seem to average about 45 mpg which is what I was led to expect.

the 2006 civic hybrid seem to cost around 21k. almost the same as the prius. I like the fold down back seat. I'll most likely go with the prius.

I don't know why Handa can't move the battery pack somewhere else. Toyota did it.

I am considering a 2006 Civic Hybrid as my 2006 Mercury Cougar is shot. I am not concerned with gas prices, it is more the environmental factor that is the reason I am seeking out a hybrid. My one concern, however, is routine maintanence. Has anyone heard if a "regular" mechanic can work on these cars, or is a hybrid like the Mini Cooper (you have to take it to a dealership just to get the oil changed!!! $150 per oil change). That is a concern of mine!

Mike,

Yes, all cars have batteries, and yes, their disposal is an important concern. Surely you can understand why people would have serious reservations about suddenly having more potentially harmful batteries to deal with on an exponential scale. It's not a concern that should easily be dismissed just because an old tech car has a battery.

Just got my 2006 Civic Hybrid today with Navigation. Drove it about 40 miles and it says I got 31 MPG. I was mostly in serious bumper-to-bumper traffic. I applied for the license plate "TRE HUGR" and will send pictures once it comes in :-)

The car is AWESOME. Definitely worth the $27,277.41 I paid out the door (includes 7% state tax). It cost me another $326 to buy an extended 5 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Hey, guys!

I took delivery of my new 2006 Civic Hybrid a little more than a week ago. I've driven it about 1500 miles (all work related) since.

I can tell ALL of you this much: The car definately DOES get 54 on the freeway - with the cruise control set - (here it comes) - at 58. If you push it to 60 miles an hour it drops to 47 or 48 miles per gallon. If you dare to push it up to the speed limit of 70 the mileage drops down around 30 or 32.

And forget all about soaring with the eagles at 10 miles an hour over the posted 70 mph speed limit - or 80 miles an hour - (everybody goes 10 over in Georgia) because then the tach pegs almost to the red line at every little hill or incline and the mileage drops down to 20. Yes.

Yep yep yep. Everything is just DANDY at 58 miles an hour - except when you look up in your rear view mirror and all you can see is the rear-view-mirror-wide word MACK spelled backwards from where that Mack truck just blasted up on your rear at 70 or 80 miles an hour and just PRAY TO GOD that his air brakes and JakeBrake are working and that his 30 tons of gravel don't shift TOO far foward if he manages to jump on his brakes in time to keep from nailing you from behind with his multi-ton NON HYBRID dump truck - assuming everything else works like it's supposed to.

You guys - check with me (if I'm still alive) in 6 months and I'll give you an update. But so far so good - I'm averageing at or above the Civic Hybrid's factory / EPA rating of 49 city and 51 highway.

But Honda makes you EARN every one of those MPG's the hard way - by pissing off every OTHER driver on the road who has to figure out a way to blast on by you without causing true mayhem.

Respectfully,

Bill Trail
Owner,
Penny Computer Systems & Custom Software, Inc.
657 River North Blvd.
Macon, GA 31211

478 742-3299 office
478 738-9588 fax

www.pennyfinance.com

"I can tell ALL of you this much: The car definately DOES get 54 on the freeway - with the cruise control set - (here it comes) - at 58. If you push it to 60 miles an hour it drops to 47 or 48 miles per gallon. If you dare to push it up to the speed limit of 70 the mileage drops down around 30 or 32."

Very interesting post Bill, and I particularly liked this part. It shows in part that transmission gearing has an impact, but especially just how much wind-resistance plays a big role at these speeds. The decrease in efficiency is almost exponential, just like the wind resistance.

Mgr,

I traded a 2005 automatic V6 Accord 4-dr EXL-Navi with 38,000 miles (all done in 9 months, thank you) for this '06 HCH. I maintain meticulous expense records and have proof of several (meaning maybe a dozen) 300 to 600 mile business round trips where I was able to eke out 37.2 or 37.3 mpg with that big 240hp V6.

Last year I had a 2005 4-cylinder automatic Accord 4-dr EXL-Navi and I recorded 44.15 on one 520-mile round trip Macon, GA to Selma, AL and back in one day. The car still had about 1/4 tank of gas when I got back to town.

Let's see. I also had a 2002 (or '03?) Odyssey which did two things really well. It went like a bat - and it got terrific gas mileage on long trips at 80 miles an hour - frequently 32 or 33.

I traded that for a new 2003 CR-V which was just awful. It's tiny little motor was always buzzing. It was very uncomfortable. It never came close to it's EPA rating. And it's left rear tire blew out at 9,000 miles and the Bridgestone people told me it was because the fuel overflow tube spilled gas directly onto the sidewall of the tire and that my repeated spilling of raw gasoline was directly to blame.

When I tried to explain that to Honda at their 800 customer service telephone number out in Southern California the guy passed me over to his manager - and his manager hung up on me.

As God is my witness - every word true.

My brother the college professor in Greensboro, NC, just emailed me an incredible European Honda web page (link) that showed the new production version of the Honda "Estate" (a wagon version of the European Accord) with a diesel engine that gets 77 miles per gallon.

Why aren't any of you talking about and DEMANDING that car? I WANT THAT ONE.

Bill Trail

Disappointed in PGH--
One of the big reasons I bought an 06 HCH is that
it will run in all electric mode (in low speed
cruise) but how do you know when its doing it?
Nobody seems to know, Honda or my dealer.

Still only getting an average 35MPG with my 06 HCH. I don't do much highway driving. Most of my driving is in Georgia traffic or quick runs to the gym or other local establishments. I still think the car is quite amazing, but I doubt the claims of 50+MPG. I did a highway test over 20 miles and tried to drive every mile for maximum MPG and still only accomplished 45MPG. The navigation system is the best I've ever seen, the steering is precise, and the overall quality of the car is high. I just can't believe I paid $27,500 for a CIVIC and can't get the MPG claimed on the sticker. I'll still update with photos of my car with the "Tree Hugger" license plate once it arrives!

"Still only getting an average 35MPG with my 06 HCH. I don't do much highway driving. Most of my driving is in Georgia traffic or quick runs. to the gym or other local establishments."

That is exactly why your average is not high. Quick trips are the worse when it comes to fuel economy because cold engines are much less efficient than engines that have a had a time to warm up and then operate at peak temperature for most of the trip.

If it's any consolation, that is true non-hybrids too, so whatever car you had previously was getting very crappy mileage (possibly under 20 mpg) during these quick runs.

Hope this helped.

Sat 12/10/2005

Hey, Eric,

I'm still getting 54mpg with my new '06 HCH on not-to-hilly highway trips with my cruise control set at 58. You KNOW it's 58 because those 3-inch high numbers up there on top of the dash SAY it's 58. (tongue in cheek) Wierd, but you gotta keep the cruise engaged or you'll spend too much time trying to get it back up to 58 or 60 after every little hill - and you'll end up down around 45 mpg.

Also I concur with Mgr's comments about cold engines and short trips. Mgr, do you work for Honda or own a Civic hybrid? Pardon if that was already covered in a previous or the generic room post.

Next time you take a relatively longer trip try this, Eric:

Drive it like you have a cracked raw egg, that's not cracked so bad that it's leaking yet, between your right foot and the gas pedal.

You're going to find out that it does WAY better than the 30's that you've been seeing.

Jump in it, zoom up to the gym or 7/11, driving it like an Acura TL, and you'll be lucky to get 20 mpg.

But drive it like a priest in a funeral and BADA BING - you gotta u-self a BALL game, dude.

If you're in Atlanta then you KNOW you're eating tonight at Alfredo's Italian on Cheshire Bridge Road. Ask for Tony and tell him crazy Bill Trail in Macon (100 miles south) sent you. It gets me a FREE MEAT BALL next time WE go - a meat ball like you never tasted in-a u life ! (and home-made cannoli that make-a-u slap-a u mama)

Remember: Drive Slow - be a Hero.

:^)

Bill Trail
Macon, Georgia
Saturday, December 10, 2005

"Mgr, do you work for Honda or own a Civic hybrid? Pardon if that was already covered in a previous or the generic room post."

I do not, but I write for Treehugger.com and I wrote the article about the Honda Civic hybrid '06 on this page we are posting comments on, so I've made some research on the subject (in fact, I first heard about the cold trip/getting bad MPG in relation to the Toyota Prius; someone was getting in the 30s mpg, so others asked how the car was used, and it was all for very short trips).

I guess nobody in the whole wide world can
can tell when their 06 HCH is running on just the
electric motor. Maybe they could repogram a ROM
so at least the auto stop light would come on.
I love this car don't make me wish I bought a
Prius.My mileage is bad right(32) now but-temp in 20's lots of hills and mostly short trips. It
really makes me wonder about non hybrids mileage.

You will not be able to tell when the HCH is in "golf cart mode" because the engine will still be recording RPMs (Honda assist motor) unlike the Prius (motor separate from engine). What the Civic needs is a "usage readout" like the Prius. I rented a Prius for a week (only got 45MPG) and could not stop watching the usage readout telling me what mode it was in. It also helped me squeeze out extra MPG by tweaking my driving habits to the readout.

Also, I have been in an Accord Hybrid and find the Civic Hybrid Auto-Stop system to be much more driver friendly. The Accord would shut the engine off every time the car went under a couple MPH. The Civic seems to know when I'm in bumper-to-bumper and does not shut the engine off every time. It also does not shut the engine off when the engine is still cold.

I figured out you can tell when your running on
just electric because the instantanteous MPG
gauge will go to max and stay there until the
ice starts back up,it did work for me.

Don't mean to "hog" space with repeated posts - but I feel it's significant to let all of you know that I just achieved 70.6 MPG on a 386-mile non-stop trip from just north of Charlotte, NC to Macon, GA with my new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid.
.

I really think that most of you who are only seeing 35 MPG must be using your HCH in strictly local start-stop driving in town. I would go one step further and bet that you (all) are mashing the gas - probably all the way - frequently.
.

Guess it won't work to ask you to slow down and quit all the jack-rabbit starting and stoping. I have taken to slowing down "like my mother" - you know, slow enough that the light has time enough to change to green before I get to the intersection or the car in front of me? Then I barely touch the gas pedal to get going again.
.

Does this make some people behind me mad as heck ? Oh, you bet it does. And on my almost 400-mile trip the other day I actually turned on the emergency flashers to get drivers (especially the big 18-wheel trucks) plenty of time to change to the left lane - because I only get that fabulous 70+ mpg when I'm running 58 miles an hour. I "hustled" on the trip up to North Carolina (well, I ran 65 instead of 58) the day before and still averaged 50.1 MPG.
.

So. That's the secret. Long trips, low speeds, and never never NEVER mash the gas - not EVER.
.
Refer to my previous post: drive the '06 HCH like an Acura TL and kiss that fantastic mileage goodbye.
.

Anyway - why would you purchase this otherwise overly expensive car with its tiny little gas motor - and then turn right around and stress it between stoplights anyway? I don't get it. I thought all of us who purchased this car were virtually manic about driving slow and "green". I guess I was wrong ?
.

Also there have been many negative comments here and elsewhere about "paying too much" for the HCH or Prius - using that tired argument that "it'll take 100,000 plus miles to break even" - using only the price of gas as a comparison tool.
--
.
One, I actually do drive almost 100,000 miles a year. Sad but true.
--
.
Two, I buy all my gas half price. (What?) If regular gas costs the same here and where you buy it - then I figure I still buy it for half price - because thanks to the "way" I drive my HCH it goes twice as far on each gallon of gas compared to your not so cool 30 mpg. That's quite a bargain, I'd say? When's the last time any of you bought gas for $1.20 ??
--
.
Three, come with me when I trade this car in or sell it in 8 or 10 months. Watch me get 2000 or 3000 dollars more for this HCH than I would have for a non-hybrid Civic. Any of you guys ever heard of the yellow NADA Used Car Book, the Black Book, or you west-coast guys, the Blue Book? Look up the used Prius or the HCH and look at loan value. It's thousands of dollars than you would expect it to be - because of demand. The few hybrids are in great demand... and what does demand do to price? Thaaaaaats right, boys and girls. Prices go UP. Very good.
--
.
Four, you get a substantial tax credit of about $2,000 if you're in the first 60,000 to buy a particular hybrid model (not a problem with the 6HCH - they're only building 28,000 of them. Toyota is planning a 90,000 vehicle run for the 2006 Prius so you late-year Prius buyers might loose this one advantage).
--
.
Fifth, the regular 2006 Civic has won many "car of the year" awards in the automotive press which insures that ALL 2006 Civics will be hot commodities on used car lots in a year or two. The 2-door Civic-SI with 197 horsepower and 36 MPH highway rating is virtually a legend "in advance" to many people who are in waiting queues as we speak. Kudos to Honda for the having the genius required to produce a car platform that on the one hand can almost nearly keep up with a new C6 Corvette in one of its versions while getting 70 MPG in another of it's incantations. BUY THE RIGHT VERSION OF THE CAR and NOT THE HYBRID if you want to go fast. (That last sentence goes to the guy in Atlanta who's busy doing cold-motor short trips to his gym - in hellacious Atlanta jack-rabbit start/stop Atlanta traffic. Forgetaboutit.)
---
.

Bill Trail
Penny Computer Systems & Custom Software
Macon, Georgia
BillTrail@Bellsouth.net
www.pennyfinance.com

I drove a ford fiesta with a 1.5 L turbo diesel with 5 speed in France last October for 2 weeks and it got 55 mpg (after converting from Liters and Kilometers) on two different full tanks. And that was combined city/country/mountain driving. I don't know about "dusting" anybody but it had plenty of zip when you needed it. Every brand of car over there offers diesel models, most much nicer than the ford. What gripes me is that in CA you can't even get VW diesels anymore but you can get a 6 to 8 L diesel in an SUV or large pickup. So which is putting out more emissions, I ask? I don't know if I would buy one here but it would sure be nice to have some choices.

send me the new picture for honda civic 2006

Bill Trail had me wondering for a while, but now I know he is smoking something illegal. I know people and have traveled with people in these vehicles. A honda Odysee will never hit near 30MPG and an Accord will never see 44MPG. As far as Civic keeping up with a C6 Corvette? Come on Bill. We are not all that stupid. Keep all these fairytails between you and your Honda driving buddies. BTW take a couple hits for me....

I purchased my 06 Honda Civic Hybrid Jan.5, 06. I have averaged 44mpg, driving 3200 miles. The average mileage guage on the dash is incorrect! I was sent a Recall notice to have this repaired. I always checked my mileage with the fuel pumped, not the instrument because I noticed it was erratic. The re-call is referred to: Guage Control Module. This may explain the gas mileage swing of some Honda Civic Owners.
My driving is 95% city, and I live in Denver. The higway mileage has been as great as 57 mpg--checking with actual gasoline pumped.
It is very difficult to scientificaly check MPG. Is the pump accurate (must be certified, and temperature compensating. Many variables. All I know, I fill my tank every 3 weeks and I don't need a cosigner!

Ok, Jim Bob. Let's at least attempt to spell correctly, okay? If I'm on drugs then why am I able to spell Odyssey correctly and you, stone sober, can't. Well that sober part WAS an assumption on my part.

Yes, driven extremely conservatively, my then new 2002 240-hp V6 Honda Odyssey actually did return a hard-earned and handsome 36.25 mpg on a 390-mile round trip Macon, GA to Valdosta, GA and back on that day - 70mph freeway all the way running the van at between 55 and 60 miles an hour.

Yes, my 2005 Accord EX-L4 Navi really did return 44.1 MPG on a 500plus mile round trip Macon to Selma, AL and back, again all in one day. The car did, indeed, have just slightly more than 1/4 of the fuel still in the tank according to the indicator gauge AND when I very laboriously refilled the tank at the same Sam's gas station I fillup up at that same morning prior to leaving for Selma, it required precisely 11.451 gallons to refill the tank back up to the spilling point. Now, Jimmy, that's 505 miles divided by 11.451 gallons of unleaded fuel. My calculator says 44.10095. Would you concur?

Did I tell ya that I am a meticulous record keeper? Don't you just hate that, J-man? Guess that's a rare combination, huh? A drug abuser who keeps meticulous records and owns his own D&B A+Rated computer company - in business longer than Bill Gates - since 1984? That's downright odd, I'd say.

And yes, with my new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid I did indeed earn a fantastic 72 miles per gallon on a recent trip back from Harmony (Statesville), NC north of Charlotte to Macon, GA, right at 400 miles exactly one way, using ever so slightly more than 5.5 gallons of unleaded fuel purchased at $2.899 on that March day. The trip cost me $16.11 in gas that day.

Isn't that special.

Frankly I couldn't care less whether you choose to believe me or not. No I don't get this mileage every day - especially if I'm late to a distant appointment and have to hustle like everybody else at 10 over / 80 miles an hour. This is DEFINITELY NOT an 80 mile per hour car... so on those days? The mileage (on the new 6HCH) plummets to as low as 32 if I run 10 over (80 miles an hour) or around 40 or 41 if I run it at 70 miles an hour.

But, like I said in previous posts, when I've got the extra time it takes to run along in the right lane at 55 or 58 this cool little car never ceases to amaze me with its super high mileage. And, yes, I'm constantly hitting the AC button when I have to go uphill or stress the motor - on those days when I'm stretching it out.

What do I usually get on the average day with this 6HCH? Really, I average, probably, around 48 when you mix in my "bad" days with the super good days. I'm over 22,000 miles with this car, J-man, since I took delivery of it just in November 2005.

So, J-ster. What type of inefficient fuel gobbler do YOU drive?

And are you always this angry and jealous ?

Bill Trail, President & Owner,
Penny Computer Systems, Inc.
657 River North Boulevard
Macon, GA 31211
(478) 742-3299
www.pennyfinance.com

Penny Systems, Inc. is a D&B A+ rated company in business since September, 1984.

Furthermore, Jim-bob, the new 2006 Civic SI with almost 200 HP at 8,000 rpm and a power to weight ratio of almost the same as the new 2006 Corvette will, indeed, stay with the Corvette on normal city streets and roads with lots of turns.

I freely admit that given long straight-aways where the big Chevy V8 can max out its rev limiter at 184 miles an hour, that yes, the little Civic would fade. Fast.

But put 'em together on city streets, dude? The Vette will never shake the Civic given equivalent driver talent and sophistication.

Furthermore, in that same tight course, the new Mini Cooper would hang just as well. Pick your weapon, dude... oh, ye of large displacement and previous ownership of none of the cars ye choose-ith to critize.

Bill Trail
President,
Penny Computer Systems, Inc.
Macon, GA

www.pennyfinance.com

For anyone who is interested in getting hybrid like fuel economy , but has dieselphobia check out the Honda Civic VX early 90's They are pretty cheap and get really good mileage. Check it out

Hi, Andreas.

You said, "For anyone who is interested in getting hybrid like fuel economy , but has dieselphobia check out the Honda Civic VX early 90's They are pretty cheap and get really good mileage. Check it out."

OMG, dude. Dieselphobia? So we should all trade our, you know, "dieselphobia", for 15 or 18-year old junk cars?

I did a search just now on Google for "Honda Civic VX". I'm thinking you didn't do that, Andreas.

All I found were rusted out old junk cars - one was for sale on eBay for $250 without a motor.

Darn it man - that's gonna give ya some pretty terrific mileage, right? ...like ZERO ?

Yep yep yep. All you gotta worry about while you're pushing it is all that other traffic rushing up on you at freeway speed. Could be a pretty nasty little incident just waiting to happen.

Ya THINK ?

How we supposed to get from point A to point B without a motor, dude?

And what about all that rust? Won't all that rust just get on your clothes, dude?

Don't you just HATE that?

Bill Trail, President
Penny Computer Systems, Inc.
Macon, GA

Seeking to get this out there. I have a 2001 Honda Civic LX. Typical MPG up til recently have been 32 to 41. Now, I have been getting gas from an independant gas station and have gotten up to 81 mpg. stated with a full tank, drove 144 miles with the A/C, sat in a parking garage for 1 hour 20 minutes idling. Another occasion i drove to the mountains 325 miles starting with a full tank. I refilled with 4.88 gallons, that is 65 MPGs. Any like experiences?

We bought our car in March 2006. We are only getting 28-31 mpg overall. do we have a lemon? the dealer said it takes 10,000 to 15,0000 miles to break in the car to really know the mileage.

--
editor note: Is it possible that you're only taking very short trips? If the engine doesn't have time to warm up, the fuel efficiency will suffer (not only in hybrids, but in all cars).

If not, maybe you do have a lemon.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

The real world stats above show that the real-world average combined mpg for the 2006 Civic hybrid is 47 mpg.

Sunday July 30 2006 11:30 am eastern standard time

Hi, todd d. Those are some great mpg numbers.

I'm curious about a couple things, however. For instance... I also owned a 2001 Civic LX Automatic. I discoved that I was unable to completely refill it (some of the time) which I assumed was a function of heat and/or the angle of the ground (flat/slightly up/slightly down) at the pump.

I got in the habit of finding pumps that allowed me to halt the vehicle with the nose down a bit relative to the rear of the car... because I couldn't always refill the tank right up to the brim with every last drop unless I did this. Also I remember... I used to refit the fuel cap and then shake the car (always gets lots of LOOK AT THE GEEK looks) a time or two. Then, often as not, I'd be able to put another TWO whole gallons of fuel into the car.

Come to think of it - both my Accords did the same thing. Hmm....

Anyway, try that. Try to begin a 300 or 500 mile round trip when you're able to totally fill up when it's moderately cool outside and not too humid. Then attempt to refill your Civic at the same station at the same pump with the vehicle in the same position and (hopefully) with the same ambient air temperature and humidity, etc. Then and only then will you accurately receive a valid or near valid indication of the number of gallons of fuel you used.

Thanks - good luck - let us know what you find out.

Bill Trail
Penny Computer Systems, Inc.
Macon, GA

bill@pennyfinance.com

Oh - forgot to tell you guys. I traded my 2006 Civic Hybrid for a new 2006 VW Jetta TDI (diesel).

Bill Trail
Penny Computer Systems

bill@pennyfinance.com
www.pennyfinance.com

--
editor note: Can you find biodiesel where you live?

OK, I will throw in my two cents. I have on 06 Honda Civic hybrid and am very pleased with it. I am currently getting 45.3 MPG on my current tank of 87 octane fuel. This is with me running the air the last few days, and with me lugging my golf clubs in the trunk a couple of days. It is true that I 'only' got 41 MPG the first few weeks I owned the car, but after breaking in the engine, and with the weather warming up (I live around Chicago, IL.) the MPG has improved. Overall, for the first 4500 miles on this car, I am averaging 43.8 MPG. Not bad. I have a mix of city/highway driving, drive 40 miles round trip to work each day, and am neither the fastest or the slowest driver on the road. Heck, I would have been happy with the 37 MPG that Consumer Reports rated it at. With gas well over $3.00 a gallon in this area (and no doubt heading higher), I feel that coupled with the federal tax credit, this car was definitely a great purchase. I checked out the Toyota Prius before buying the Honda, and I am sure that is a great car too, but I would have waited up to 6 months to get it. My local Honda dealer had three 06 Civic hybrids on the lot ready to go. Besdies the great fuel economy, it is a very solidly built car. Until something better comes along (PHEV ???), I will be happy driving this Honda.

You can't find any decent VX's for sale because the owners won't sell them.

You see rusty junked ones for sale, but the good ones- and there are many- are all being used by happy owners.

55mpg Hwy
45mpg Cty

NO BATTERY TO DITCH.

I have to put in a plug for my Scion Xb. I am seeing an honest 32mpg with this little rig (I am in FL with no hills) and it cruises the interstate at 85 mph if required with plenty of power left over and cost $14,600.00. I am very pleased with everything about it and it has enough room in it to replace my Dodge Pickup 95% of the time.
Mike

I have a 2004 Prius that I bought brand new and I have recently purchased a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid to replace my mini-van. Both cars are great vehicles. I cannot pick between the two, but I don't understand how some people are getting such crappy mileage. On the Prius I average 47-55 driving 90% hwy at 65-70mpg. On the Civic I average 49-50mpg 90%hwy at 65-70. I drive around 25,000/year/car. Maybe I am lucky. (Mileage checked with amount of fuel pumped, not by the gauge). I also do not jackrabbit start the vehicle, but I am not slow either. These numbers are consistent and I have not reached the 5,000 mile break-in point on the Civic yet. The Prius has two break-in points, one at around 15,000 and the other around 25,000.

I have had a VX since 92. It has 215K on it now. The window sticker rated it at 48city/55 hgwy. The last time I took it on a long trip, 3 adults, loaded (the car, not the adults) it got 52mpg...not bad for a car with 185k at the time. Typically, it got 42mpg...but that was driving it pretty hard. It's not for sale. I don't get all of the hubbub about the hybrids when this thing from 1992 gets numbers like that.

I purchased a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid in June 2006. I have a 65Km trip to work which is about 80% highway. Over my first 7 tanks of gas I have averaged between 4.6 and 4.7 L/100km. This car has lived up to my expectations, and I expect once the engine is worked in will likely meet or exceed the stated fuel economy. The best thing is that with the local tax rebate it was priced similar to the top end Civic, and has most of the same accessories.

I wanted one, but Honda offered crap on my trade in. Next gerneration I'll get one.

There are a few minor problems with my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. The brakes make a noiseand will release when the brake is applied, letting the car accelerate some before stopping (bad when in traffic, do not follow too close, allow additional space). The power jacks blow the fuse when pluging any thing in (can not use the jacks for phone or computer while traveling). The service department said this was common on all Honda Hybrids and there was nothing they could do. There is a recall for the MPG indication equipment, you may not be getting the MPG you think, this is a special order replacement part.

We bought a 2006 Honda Civic
hybrid in June to replace a mini-van. I drive kids on short trips at slow speeds all day. At first it got about 35 mpg. Now, with about 2500 miles on it, it barely gets 31 mpg. Sure, it beats the mini-van, but it's not close to the 50 mpg-city driving figure on the sticker.The only time I've had it on the freeway, it had no guts whatsoever...when driving on the D.C. beltway where the traffic runs about 75 mph, it's almost a hazard.
At first I figured this was a lemon, but now I'm guessing that all the short trips never give the car a chance to warm up well enough. I am a very conservative driver though and followed all of the instructions for getting good gas mileage. It just never happened.

Cindy,

You are absolutely right that the car not having the time to properly warm up is a problem. This is a problem in all gas cars, not just hybrids (but in other cars, you don't notice it as much because there isn't always a MPG gauge).

If it's any consolation, if your Civic is getting 31 mpg on those trips, the Minivan was probably getting terrible mileage on those same short trips.

Cindy, perhaps you have one foot on the gas and the other on the brakes? I went to greenhybrid.com, and the mileage you're supposedly getting is way outside the boundaries of what is normal. Also, since you have trouble going highway speeds with a vehicle which is clearly capable of doing them, it leads me to believe there is something either seriously wrong with the car (in which case you should have it repaired for free, since it's under warranty) or perhaps there is something very wrong with your driving technique.

I'd just like to throw in my perspective on a couple topics I've seen here.

We've seen the cost argument. "You have to drive 100k miles to recover the extra money." This is true. I won't even go there. But another topic that has been heavily disputed is the speed you must travel to get that "great" mileage. My wife an I used to have a 1996 Nissan Sentra, it got 39-40 mpg doing 80-85mph. We just got a 2007 Civic LX. It got 39.2 mpg doing 82 mph on the way back from the dealership 2hrs away.

What is so special about getting ~45-50 mpg if you have to constatly focus on how you are driving, and do 15 mph under the speed limit? Not to mention the danger you are putting everyone else in by causing them to slam on their brakes.

Here is another issue you've probably never thought of. If your argument is that "I'm saving the earth by driving 58mph and getting 55mpg," what about all the traffic that has to slow for you? If you take a drive, and get passed by SUVs, trucks, and other cars that have to slow to 58, move out of your way, and accelerate back to 80, how much gas are you causing them to waste? Lets say every car takes 0.5mi to get back to speed. During this time they probably get something like 5mpg for having to accelerate so hard and long. If you do this for 4 hrs, and get passed, say every 20seconds, thats over 700 cars that have to do this. 700cars x .5mi=350 miles of cars getting 5mpg because of you. That equates to 70 gallons of gas, so you could save like 3.

Is that friendly to our enviroment?

I've driven about 12,000 miles on the 2006 Civic Hybrid that I bought in January and I love it. I am very satisfied with the mileage that I am getting.

My average fuel consumption since getting the car has been almost 48 MPH with occational commutes to work and back just short of 60 MPG.

I've found that my fuel comsumption varies a lot depending on driving and weather conditions. During trips on the interstate at 70+ MPH I get between 43 to 45 MPG. On two lane roads at speeds between 45 & 60 I get between 47 to as high at 59 MPG.

Most of my driving is a daily 40 mile commute on country roads at between 45 and 55 MPH. Last winter, with cold starts and running snow tires, I averaged 44 MPG. With warmer weather and summer tires I've been getting between 53 & 54 MPG per tank of gas.

I've found that I can get good milage without pissing other drivers off by driving absurdly slow. However, a light foot makes a huge difference.

...an "editor's note" asked me if I was able to purchase bio diesel fuel for my new 2006 VW Jetta TDI Diesel.

Yes, however my mileage dropped from 40~41 to 34~36.

Bio diesel and E85 both return 20% to 40% less mileage, horsepower, and torque for the same gallon of fuel than 100% gasoline or diesel.

Unfortunatly for mankind no fuel has yet been developed that can return the same "burn" and energy per gallon as pure fossil fuel.

A few obversations from a previous 6HCH owner:

The 6HCH that I traded in for this new diesel Jetta, although a cute little car, was the LAST car a 220-lb 6-foot 2-inch tall traveling salesman like me should have ever bought.

Hey, it's GREAT for small or short people who have that "Rusty Wallace" up-close to the wheel driving style.

But guys, 6-feet or taller, 190 or 200 pounds or more, you better look out.

It absolutely beat the pure TAR out of me on long 500 to 800 mile days.

You can NOT get away from those cloth seats. Y'know what I mean? No leather or leatherette option. Horrible seat material on a long trip.

The truly lousy hard-as-nails tires and non-responsive steering and brakes are, by necessity, designed for the lightest weight and maximum mpg, not stopping traction or lane-changing to avoid a wreck.

And that darn emergency brake handle !!! That darn thing dug a hole in my right knee bone. I'll NEVER forget that. Given the choice I'd rather go through boot camp again than ride for any length of time in the driver's seat of another new Civic Hybrid.

The sun visors in the Civic do not extend. Therefore when the sun is blasting in through the driver's side window you end up with an 8-inch gap between the end of the puny little visor and the B-pillar at your left shoulder. The sun blasts right into the left side of your face. That should be a direct violation of Federal Law that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ought to be suing Honda Motor Company for it. Just an incredible oversight on Honda's part - or skimping to save a buck - on a $24,000 car? WHAT ? You say the Accord - same money - has a visor that adjusts? WHAT ?

The gas overflow tube dumps directly onto the sidewall of the left rear tire.

Hey guess what happens to these skinny little tires after a few well placed drops of gasoline that you forget to wash off ?

BLAM.

And I might have already mentioned the car's lack of handling and maneuverability so riding on three tires and a rim at 70 or 80 miles an hour are DEFINITELY not the preferred mode of travel for this vehicle... Rusty Wallace at the wheel or NOT.

You make darn sure to keep your Rosary beads in this car with you if you've ever spilled gas on that left rear tire's sidewall.

You paid 23 or 24 grand for this car (or 25 or 26 with Nav) which is Accord EX-L territory and bordering on TWICE the price of Yaris, Versa, Fit and others.

The Accord really gets its rated 37 mpg (and more if driven conservatively) on the highway because I've owned two in the last couple years. Wife's driving a brand new brown with tan leather 2006 EXL-4 right now. I want her car.

Lots of new cars get 37 or 40 (Corolla?) and some do only cost half the money.

Truthfully this 2006 Jetta TDI ($22,600) is no better than a stop gap measure for me either. Diesel's selling for $2.37 at the same station selling gas for $1.91 (grrr) and it's probably creating the pollution of two dozen HCH's. I have, however, asked my wife when following me in her new Accord to tell me if she see's any diesel smoke - never even the slightest. You don't even know it's a diesel. That's pretty amazing. I realize a tail-pipe analysis would show the truth, however.

But the thing is totally convinced that it's a serious sports car... handling, brakes, and an incredible top speed of 125 miles an hour - rock solid - like a 3 series BMW. And it's got the most gorgeous tan leatherette seats with good bolsters inside a black 4-door body, 60-series tires on real alloy wheels, factory CD-Sirius in the dash, and a trunk the size of Texas. It stops so fast that I'm more concerned about the guy behind me than I am in avoiding whatever caused me to jump on the brakes.

I say - do not buy the Honda Civic Hybrid when you can save 3 / 4 / 5 grand with the non-hybrid version, get nearly the same mileage, and go like a bat out of... well, you know what I mean.

That same 3 / 4 / 5 thousand bucks buys a whole BUNCH of gas - no matter what the price of gas is.

Been there. Done that. I'm Denny Crane.

No I'm not.

I'm Bill Trail

: )

www.PennySystems.com

(Tt's a joke limited to viewers of Boston Legal. Get a TiVo.)

I have a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I bought it in 2002 and up until this point have been happy. I get avg 42 mpg. Recently I began have problems with warning lights coming on. It's been in the shop 4 times and I currently have a loaner because they can't figure out what is wrong. They have replaced the small battery & now a computer. I was wondering if anyone else has had similar problems? Is it time to trade before it gets worse?

I found this site because I was searching for info on the forthcoming civic diesel. One point about diesels (our family currrently has 3 all running on 100% biodiesel) is that biodiesel is clean burning and made from renewable resources. So even if you have a slight reduction in MPG you are burning zero petroleum product (hybrids cannot claim this). And by the way, quality is a big issue, we actually had a bump in MPG.

(Posted by Linda:Recently I began have problems with warning lights coming on.)
Just bought an 06 Civic Hybrid which has been running great for 6 months. All of a sudden, when you crank the car the power steering pump is out and the IMA light is on. Turn it off and restart, everything is fine. Shop had it for 2 weeks to determine that it was the cause of a satellite radio being plugged into the wrong fuse. Not sure I am buying it b/c now it is not downshifting correctly. And in response to the brakes making a noise and releasing, mine does that as well. Was getting around 53mpg out of it, now I am lucky to get 47. I guess weather can be contributing, but the car is rarely driven in anything less than 50farenheit in NC.

I've had a 2006 HCH since January, and been pretty happy with it. My wife uses it for her 52 mile one-way commute (97% Interstate), and she doesn't travel with a light foot or at slow speeds (or use the cruise control). She gets between 40 and 50 mpg, or at least she did until recently, when her mileage seemed to go way down (below 40 mpg). I thought maybe she was driving harder, but a couple of weeks ago went on a trip with the car, and the transmission seems to be "latching up". Normally, you go up a slight hill at 70 MPH, and the RPM goes up (to say 4000 RPM) to maintain the speed (this happens with or without the cruise control). Get to the top of the hill, and the engine backs off and the RPM falls down to 2000 RPM or so.

Now, however, when she gets to the top of the hill and over, the engine stays at 4000 RPM, and the gas mileage gauge reads 30 MPG or less at 70 MPH. The only way I seem to be able to get it back to 2000 RPM (assuming I notice it is revving) is to knock the shift lever to "S" for a second and then back to D, and it pops up and comes down.

I took it into the dealer just before going out of town a couple of weeks ago, and they told me they couldn't reproduce the problem. Maybe I didn't describe it as well as I have here, or maybe it only happens at higher speeds, and they didn't get it going fast enough in Albuquerque (I live about 20 miles south of the, and my wife commutes in the opposite direction).

Anyone else seeing this problem? I guess I'll take it back again and try to get them to drive with me while I demonstrate it to them. They told me that the computer had no bad codes in it, so whatever it is, it's not obvious.

Steve Welch

PS Those seats are murder on me, too, on a long distance drive, at 6"1" and 190 lbs, but I found that one inch of stiff foam in the center depression of the seat transforms them from pure tourture on a 20 minute drive into the city to quite comfortable for the 9 hour drive to Denver. Hate that fricken parking brake, too, though! My 5"4" wife is totally comfortable, though.

I'm a happy owner of a 1992 Honda Civic VX. Bought it brand new way back in 1992, and its still running happily. I've been approached by several people over the years about buying my car, and all I can say is 'No'. I wish that I had bought two of these things back in 1992.

I owned a new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid and drove it 20,000 miles in six months and traded it for a different vehicle. Here are some of the reasons I bailed:

1. The emergency brake handle totally dug a hole into my right knee (!). I'm six feet 2 inches tall and 210 pounds. I had to trade the thing or purchase a prosthesis.

2. The 2006 Civic Hybrid had a fixed (rigid) sun visor so I was blinded by the sun pouring in the driver's side window when driving south in the morning or north in the afternoon.

3. What was worse than being blinded all the way to work and all the way home from work? The driver's seat beomes your worst enemy after 20 or 30 minutes. No leather option - so there was NO WAY to "get away from" that awful fuzzy cloth. You end up with your pants up around your neck after half an hour in the saddle.

Want to get 40 or 42 miles per gallon, pretty cool acceleration, automatic transmission, paddle shifters, 38 cubic feet of "hauling" space, and do it for 7 or 8 grand less money ?

Buy a new Honda Fit Sport Automatic. Way cool.

Bill Trail
BillTrail@Gmail.com
Macon, GA

Bought a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid. After 3200 miles, have averaged 53.4 mpg. I drive the posted speed limits. I am 6 feet 2 inches and weight about 237 pounds. I have had no problems with the drivers seat. I drive about two hours every three days. I am very satisfied with this car. I like the navi unit on this car.

VW didn't come out with a 2007 Jetta TDI due to the stricter NO2 emissions standards for diesels. However, it appears that they will have a 2008 model that will reduce the NO2 emissions by 80% as they are purchasing the BlueTec catalytic converter techonology from Mercedes. Trucks will have to use UREA (yes, the same stuff as in urine :-P) to convert rhe NO2 to N2 and O2. Also the 2008 TDI will have a huge power boost from 100hp/178 torque to 140hp/230 torque with, apparently only minor mileage economy reduction. Even before the 2006 TDI with 178 torque would have torn the Honda Civic - let alone a hybrid - in half when it comes to towing power. And the max torgue is at 1400rpm!!.. that's where the power counts anyhow. In taxed to death Europe over 30% of cars alone are diesel so there is some to be said about that fuel. Also there, diesel is sulfur free which - its about time - will also be the standard here in N. America. Interesting there are conversion kits I've read about thats will inject propane into the diesel cylinder (at 1:4 ratio... 2-3 hours to install and about $500US so claimed) that can almost double the economy of a diesel engine and makes it run smoother. Using green biodiesel and mix in propane to boost efficiency... Imagine that!!.. plus the added bonus of being able to create tax free "moonshine" biodiesel from vegetable oil and watch all those poor gasoline buyers lining up and pushing their cars to the pump at the next oil crisis!.. one has to seriously consider the TDI as an option.

Also, as a side note, the 5-8 year warranties on all those older hybrid batteries is coming to an end.. very curious if the auto makers anticipate anything there.. heard it costs over $5000 US to replace one! :-0.

Why pay $23,900 to $27,500 for a Honda Civic that must be driven - as one guy here previously said - like a "priest in a funeral" - to achieve anything CLOSE to it's promised MPG claim when you can spend TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS LESS THAN THAT on any number of other new (Japanese) cars that get right at 40 MPG - (can you say Fit, Versa, even Corolla, etc.) ? Some get better than 40 !

Ten grand ? Whew. How "green" is that? Pretty green, I guess, if you're as rich as most of you must obviously be to keep foisting this false claim of overall economy.

Assume that gas is $2.50 per gallon. Even if you purchase a car that gets only a lowly avg 30 miles per gallon, that extra 10 thousand dollars buys (are you ready for this?) enough gas to cover ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND MILES of driving.

One that gets 40 MPG avg will give you ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY THOUSAND MILES of driving.

Common sense? You guys? Push my logic one step further and answer this question honestly:

How many of you HCH owners will keep your cars up to or even beyond 100,000 miles?

You betcha. Not the FIRST one of you. You're all just busy doing the "Goochie-Goochie" look at me routine and you trade cars like everybody else every 30 to 45 months.

You're so busy patting yourselves on the back with that empty wrapper that used to hold that extra $10,000 bundle of cash money that you wasted on your Civic Hybrids that you've forgotten what P.T. Barnum said:

"There's one born every minute."

One thing’s for sure. That ain’t no $10,000 pile of cash you’re standing in NOW. (Whew. Stinky!.)

William Fredrick Jones
bill@inbox.com

I bought a Prius in January after moving to West N.C. I had a Honda 4wd Pilot and it was killing me.
I average 49-50 MPG here in the mtns. I never expected to get mileage this good, but I am. I fill up once a month and laugh about it for days. I also purchase only shell or BP fuel to further remove myself from the Gulf war. So I believe I am doing the best I can for myself and the country at the same time.

Why pay $23,900 to $27,500 for a Honda Civic that must be driven - as one guy here previously said - like a "priest in a funeral" - to achieve anything CLOSE to it's promised MPG claim

Myth.

Assume that gas is $2.50 per gallon.

Assume it's 62 cents cheaper than it is?

Even if you purchase a car that gets only a lowly avg 30 miles per gallon, that extra 10 thousand dollars buys (are you ready for this?) enough gas to cover ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND MILES of driving.

Hybrids don't cost $10K more than comparable vehicles. By your logic, a Geo Metro is comparable to a Porsche 911.

Common sense?

No, tortured logic and myth perpetuation.

How many of you HCH owners will keep your cars up to or even beyond 100,000 miles?

Irrelevant. If you sell your vehicle, it retains a certain amount of value. If it can save gasoline vis-a-vis some standard, then that has tangible economic value which should be reflected in the resale price. Didn't attend that economics course?

You're all just busy doing the "Goochie-Goochie" look at me routine and you trade cars like everybody else every 30 to 45 months.

More wild, unsubstantiated speculation -- and also irrelevant, as pointed out.

"There's one born every minute."

Yes - thanks for demonstrating that so well.

You are completely wrong, Pat.

Use the current price of gas (avg) of $3.30.

Your avg mpg is 48 - mine is 42 with my new Fit Sport.

My original investment was $15,850.
Your Civic Hybrid Navi was $26,000.

You will not begin saving money (over me, dude) until you have driven exactly ONE MILLION MILES.

that's MILLION with a ONE in front and a MILES out BACK.....

O N E M I L L I O N M I L E S

Do the math, genius. One million miles in your HCH avg 48 mpg is 20,833 gallons x $3.30 = $68,749.00

One million miles in my Fit Sport avg 42 mpg is 23,810 gallons x $3.30 = $78,573.00

You:
26,000 - original HCH Navi
68,749 - gas for 1,000,000 miles of driving
--------
94,749 - your total (isn't that SPECIAL ?)

Me:
15850 - original Fit Sport
78,573 - gas for 1,000,000 miles of driving
--------
94,423 - my total (Hell, I'm STILL saving 400 over you - good GRIEF will it never end)

Why all the math? Becaise it proves my point entirely, Pat.

You have to drive over ONE MILLION MILES to even BEGIN saving any money over me - even though you have a hotsie-totsie HCH Navi.

Oh. Did I forgett to tell you? I have a laptop compter with Delorem's Street Atlas USA Nav program with it's little dash-mounted GPS blue-tooth sending unit that cost me all of $749 (including the new Toshiba laptop pc) that's infinitely more accurate than your built-in NAV system. Sure, your's is cute - it's polished. And it's PERFECT for you, Pat. Underpowered and overpriced (2 GRAND - ouch). Plus when finally do trade your little gold mine - it goes WITH it. Adios, Nav. bu-BYE.

You're either gullible or just stupid rich. I hope for your sake it's the latter.

All of you who foolishly believe that high-dollar hybrid technology is the answer need to rethink your behavior.

Another way to look at this mess:

Use 6% APR and 60 months financing:

26000 = 502.65 per month
15850 = 310.27 per month

So are you guys ALL just rich - or WHAT.

Do you people REALLY believe that it's better to pay almost $200 higher monthly payments - FOR 5 YEARS (half a DECADE) just to average 6 or 8 miles per gallon better fuel economy?

The National Highway Traffic Administration says average annual driven mileage is up to around 20,000. So that's 1,667 miles per month or, for you HCH buyers averaging 48 miles per gallon, that equates to 35 gallons of gas.

For me, averaging 42 miles per gallon in my "not hard to look at red Honda Fit Sport" that equates to 40 gallons of gas.

DO YOU REALLY MEAN TO TELL ME THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND THAT EXTRA TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST TO SAVE A LOUSY FIVE GALLONS OF GAS EACH MONTH - A WHOPPING SEVENTEEN DOLLARS ?????

YOU'RE PAYING NEARLY $200 HIGHER MONTHLY PAYMENTS TO SAVE A LOUSY $17/month AT THE PUMP.

ARE YOU ALL ABSOLUTELY STARK RAVING MAD? Pat, I already KNOW you are - so that question wasn't for you. Oki doki then.

William Fredrick Jones
bill@inbox.com

I purchases a Prius last March- '06, On average I get 48.6 miles to the gallon-this is going by the monitor- When I do the math myself I usually get over 50-55 mph. I drive fast (50-80mph) I assume that if I slowed down it would increase my milage.
Toyota is rotating my tires free every 5,000 miles they check airpressure so I would assume that everything is at it optimum.

I really have no complaints what so ever about the prius and my husband is going to buy a hybrid this year , The prius had a tax write off of over $3000.

Does any one know what haybrid will have the best tax incentives this year?

Thanks-
Patricia
Arkansas

i love hybrids.

I have read all of the posts and I was just wondering about the AC. I live in Phoenix and as you all know, it is pretty hot here. Does the AC shut off when stopped at a red light? I know most lights are not that long, but when it gets up to around 120 degrees outside, it can be too long. I was considering a hybrid (of any make) and thought the best approach would be to find out what other hybrid owners have to say. At this point, I will probably stick with my Dodge Neon.

Thanks for all posting pros and cons regarding the hybrid.

Driving matters a lot! My son, a leadfoot, gets about 40 mpg city. My wife gets about 55 city. I drive mostly only on long trips, where we also get about 60 at 55 mph, and 47 at 75 mph. Not bad. Not the best, but car performs better than other hybrids I have driven. Good acceleration and good enough performance overall.

Some minor rattles from dash now that I've hit 40,000 miles. This is not characteristic of Hondas, but it is far quieter and fewer rattles than the Prius did at same mileage.

So far, so good. No repairs other than maintenance: oil, filters, etc. Tires will need replace in about 10K, and possibly brakes. We'll see what those cost; I've heard these are expensive on this car.

Fit and finish remains good.

Relatively comfortable and good room even for backseat passengers. My 6 foot plus son is relatively OK in the backseat even on 3 hour drives. Everything still works and we are relatively happy.

William Fredrick Jones - the EPA mpg of the honda fit (manual transmission) is 30 mpg average. Now if you divide 42 (your recorded mpg) by 30, you get 1.4. That means that you drive 40% more efficiently than the EPA's estimates. If you were to drive the same way in a HCH (EPA mpg is 45) that would give you 45x1.4, or 63 mpg. So it is inaccurate to compare your 42 mpg with 48 mpg. Plus it's not only about mpg. It's also about the emissions. The HCH is an AT-PZEV (Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) The fit is only a LEV-2 (Low Emissions Vehicle) In between those two ratings is ULEV (Ultra LEV) and SULEV (Super Ultra LEV).

Thanks for the ULEV HE-SAID lesson, annoymous.

Okay, so I was all hyper about my new Honda Fit Sport when I posted that message. I actually did average 41.875 mpg for the first couple tanks of gas.

But like everybody else here - that slipped back a bit.

So. Adjusting for my "real" mileage now that I've had the Fit for over 35,000 miles - 37.5 mpg - and using the same percentage "increase" applied to the EPA ratings for the 2007 Civic Hybrid (not the lower 2008 ratings), you would STILL have to drive 823,000 miles to get pull even with me in my Fit.

WHEN'S LAST TIME YOU KEPT ANY CAR 800,000 MILES - ANY OF YOU.

Whaaaaaat ? They don't LAST THAT LONG, you say?

It's like arguing with Mack Mood I'm a Dinner Jacket over whether there really are gay people in Iran. You're never going to admit the obvious are you. That's why you're on this board as annoymous.

The Greenland ice sheet is predicted to half itself into the sea as is the Antarctic ice cap within the next 30 years and even if we ALL dropped that extra 10 grand - right now - on a new Prius or Civic Hybrid it wouldn't make a particle of difference.

Why you say ?

CHINA

INDIA

PAKISTAN

ASIA

Three quarters of the population on this PLANET lives there. You dont matter. NONE of you - no matter HOW green your car is (or isn't) matters. You have been OVER POPULATED INTO IRREVELANCE.

You and your little guchi guchi over priced hybrid - and all your excess cash make NO DIFFERENCE - except when you look in a mirror and stroke your own ego - or something else, from the sound of things on your annoymous end of this conversation.

Spend that same 10 grand on some needy school system where the teachers are paying for pencils out of their own $14,000 annual salary because they feel so sorry for the kids WHO HAVE NOTHING that they can't help themselves. DO SOMETHING THAT MATTERS, man.

All of you. Do something that matters - and it WON'T be riding around in the most expensive cutie-pie hey look-at-me car just because you can afford to buy one. Put your money someplace where it will help SOMEBODY ELSE - not you and your lousy over invlated EGOS.

Buy a CHEAP new car that gets pretty good mileage and DRIVE EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVELY and GIVE YOUR 10,000 CASH TO SOME WORTHY CHARITY, SCHOOL, CHURCH, OR HELP THE VICTIMS OF KATRINA or THE ASIAN SUNAMI OR THE CURRENT TRAGEDY IN BANGLADESH OR, AT A MINIMUM, FIND A HABITAT FOR HUMANITY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT IN YOUR AREA AND HAND THE MONEY TO JIMMY CARTER. HE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING WORTHWHILE HAPPEN - AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MIRRORS OR OVERLY EXPENSIVE IMPOSSIBLE TO JUSTIFY HYBRID VEHICLES THAT ONLY AVERAGE 40 SOMETHING.

OR GIVE IT TO HONDA OR TOYOTA OR GM WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN CASH YOUR CHECK IS IF THEY CAN PROVE TO YOU THAT THE MONEY WENT TOWARD THE DEVELOPMENT AND DELIVERY TO SHOWROOMS OF HYDROGEN FUEL CELL VEHICLES.

NOTHING LESS THAT A ZERO POLUTION HYDROGEN FUEL CELL IS WORTHY OF YOUR EXTRA MONEY.

But STOP - paying $10,000 extra - to average 45 MPG when there are LOTS of new cars now that get well into the 30's.

William Fredrick Jones
bill@inbox.com

Traded my '06 HCH for a '08 Prius 3 wks ago. I'm 6-foot 2-inches tall and weigh 205 lbs and find the the Prius more comfortable. I especially appreciate the design of the driver's space and right leg and knee room.

The HCH's emergency brake handle dug into my right knee and was most uncomfortable as were the seats that to achieve headroom for tall people the rear of the cushion had to be cranked all the way DOWN and I ended up sitting in a go-kart sort'a fashion. Most uncomfortable seat and seat material. Leather not even an option.

The Civic gas tank tended to "burp" when it got full and the spilled amount ran, by design, down the overflow tube and poured directly onto the left rear tire sidewall. This cost me a left rear tire at just 5,800 miles (two months of ownership for me) which was ultimately replaced for free by the tire company - as was the $420 "hybrid only" metal wheel that was ruined in the explosion and the journey from the hammer lane at 75 mph to the shoulder of the road across 4 lanes of bumper to bumper Atlanta traffic at 6pm on a Friday afternoon. Hand of God - completely out of control - never had a blowout and I'm 60 years old - but NO WRECK. Just incredible.

Tire company said I couldn't say their name - but were great. American Honda said stuff it - I must have been riding on an underinflated tire. Tire company gave me a new tire AND wheel - for free.

I also looked at and drove several new Honda vehicles before buying this Prius and with my Honda salesman's permission I poured a little bit of my bottled water down the overflow tube of a new Civic, a new Element, a new CRV, and a gorgeous new "green" 2008 Accord.

He was amazed to see water hit the sidewall of all four Honda vehicles unless wind blew the water so be sure to conduct this experiment on your own Honda on a calm day.

Honda makes great cars but this is a serious design flaw. Another 10 cents worth of tube is all that would be necessary to conduct any spillage further back and BEHIND the tire - onto the ground LIKE ALL OTHER VEHICLES (including my new Prius) but, instead, I suppose to cut production costs Honda continues to build all its cars with a shortened overflow tube that absolutely by design puts raw gasoline directly into contact with the sidewall of all of their left rear tires.

Wait until CNN or 20-20 gets hold of this one. How many of these vehicles are on American and Canadian roads... This could be one of the largest recalls in automotive history.

Happy to report that I'm averaging 50 and 51 on long freeway trips with the Prius with the cruise set at 75 mph. HCH w/cruise set at 75 only got 39 to 42.

Prius is a clear cut above Civic and is measurably quieter, more solid, exudes an air of luxury and handles better when forced to dodge an object in the road. And you almost can't put a price on all the right leg and knee room and a much more comfortable seat and seat material.

Lastly, the Toyota dealership offered me the same tradein allowance for my car but discounted the Toyota factory windowsticker of $ 24,600 to $ 22,350. That was a whopping TWO THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS. The two Honda dealerships I visited while still allowing me the exact same 15 grand for my tradein wouldn't budge a cent off their full windows sticker list prices - it was just take it or leave it.

I left : )

Tuesday Nov 20, 2007
wooptiedamndoo@bellsouth.net

V nice car . i love it

good car!!! I love it.

i have a 07 civic hybrid and avg 40 to 43 mpg on the car indicator and have noticed that when it says 37 to 40 mpg i have calculated appx 3 to 4 mpg more than the car i always fill it up to the same point that i can see (capped off ) and divide miles on trip od vs gallons of gas to c/o point the higher the car calculates the closer it gets to right i run appx 40 lbs of air in the tires year round

What I am really excited about is the new VW Jetta Diesel they are coming out with. I live in California and Diesels have been really hard to find here because of the emissions. There are some, but they are not very common. The new one looks great.

Ben,

I just drove a "secret" 2009 Jetta TDI. It's at the dealer's son's HOUSE in Atlanta... he can't bring it to the dealership until the end of May over 4 weeks from now.

Wow. 70 mpg on the highway - insane power - sports car handling - under 25 grand.

Now I just have to do the over 4/dollar/gallon math with the price of diesel to see if it beats my 50-mpg highway Prius.

I've put almost 15,000 miles on the new 2008 Prius in just 4 months so it's almost time to trade !

Yippie : )

I only get about 32.5 mpg on my '06 Honda Civic Hybrid, in Texas weather. Only drive short distances, but still. I rented a Prius on a trip for comparison (I know, that's highway driving) and averaged over 50mpg. I'm sure there's environmental factors to account for, but the discrepancy is so large I simply no longer trust Honda for hybrids at all. I'll be buying Toyota next time.

Eliot, it might be because of the short trips. If the engine doesn't have time to warm up, MPG will suffer. Did you drive longer distances on the Prius? Maybe try the same route with the Honda to see how it does?