Update on the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid

Don't forget to educate your foot on efficient driving techniques!

I just broke my 4.0 L/100km record and averaged 3.9L/100km (just over 60mpg) on my return trip from Kingston to Ottawa (~160km) yesterday. (2003 HCH)

I am a Toyota Prius 2005 owner and although I absolutely love it, I only average about 38mpg at best. Most people I talk to also average around 40mpg. I hope the HONDA HYBRID will honestly state their MPG for consumers so we can have technology shoot for higher. I know everyone has different driving patterns, but come on... no one I have spoken to who owns a Prius gets the designated mpg.

"but come on... no one I have spoken to who owns a Prius gets the designated mpg."

Hi, Dorrie. Here's a list of real-world fuel efficiency data:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/toyota-priushsd.html

They have fairly active discussion boards on that site. I'm sure that plenty of people there can help you get better mileage out of your vehicle if you ask for assistance.

Dorrie,

That's weird, most people I talk to get high 40s-low 50s during the summer and low 40s during the winter (in the north) with their Prius.

Have you checked tire pressure lately? Maybe your tires are almost flat or something...

Oh, another things: All cars are at their most inefficient during the first few minutes of driving because the engine is cold. Could it be that most of your car trips are very short? Their could explain the low mpg -- the car never has time to get at its most efficient!

One minor correction to the post is that (as far as I know) it's not that Honda doesn't already make AT-PZEV vehicles -- it's just that not all their vehicles are AT-PZEV. For 2005 and earlier there are different versions: AT-PZEV versions with very low emissions and somewhat smaller gas tanks for so-called 'clean' states, and a ULEV version for the rest of the states. It looks like they'll only be making and selling AT-PZEV versions of their hybrids from 2006 onwards.

Dorrie-

How many miles do you have on yours? Our mileage went up a bunch after the car had 5k-10k miles on it. We get anywhere from 42-51 depending on the season and the type of driving we do. We're also in Denver, which probably costs us a couple mpg (altitude). I actually think the 50mpg highway rating is about spot on. The 60mpg city rating is way high in my experience.

Blame the EPA test protocol, not Toyota and Honda.

I drive a 1981 diesel VW Rabbit. I average about 45 mpg which seems on par or even better than some hybrids. So I have to ask - why all the fuss about hybrids? Why isn't everyone out there demanding diesel powered cars? I know the emissions aren't the best, but it will run on vegetable oil if you ask it to!

Jen,

4 Reasons:

1. As you pointed out, the emissions (particulates, NOx, etc.) are much higher for diesel.

2. Performance. Even a relatively pokey Prius will dust a diesel Rabbit.

3. Safety. Your Rabbit gets that mileage because it is small and light. Cars today are stuffed with things like crumple zones and airbags that drive the weight up. A Rabbit is also too small for most people to carry their family around.

4. Perception. The diesel cars produced in response to the 70's oil shocks were mostly dreadful (the Rabbit was one of the few good ones). People still have not gotten over that, although the newer Volkswagens and Mercedes have helped to reverse those perceptions.

Of course, someone is eventually going to make a diesel hybrid which, when combined with improvements in diesel formulation and emission control, is going to be a great solution.

Will the new hybrid still fall into the electric-assist category? Last I checked, the Honda hybrids were categorized as such because the gas engine never fully shut off.

"Will the new hybrid still fall into the electric-assist category? Last I checked, the Honda hybrids were categorized as such because the gas engine never fully shut off."

I believe it is still an "assist hybrid". This model has the engine stop igniting the cylinders, but since the electric motor is part of the transmission, the engine still turns even if the cylinders are sealed.

Plus, Honda still call their system the IMA (Integrated Motor Assist).

Scott,

A '81 Rabbit is a pokey turd for sure, but a later model TDI model VW isn't and will dust a Prius hands down and the emissions are improved as well and will continue just as gas emngines have. Go Bio!

I'm excited about the new Civic Hybrid! I thought my mind was made up regarding my next car purchase with the Prius, but I'm liking this new Civic Hybrid. When it comes to the hybrid technology, how does it compare to the Prius? Is the Prius still the most effective and advanced?

My parents have a 2001 Prius and regularly see 54 or 55mpg.

Maybe you're not driving it right...

Maria: yes, the prius is still most efficient. Consider this: The Prius can regenerate electricity and accelerate with electricity at the same time. Why? because it utilizes two electric motors, not one. If the Prius is using the gasoline engine and determines that extra energy is not needed from the gasoline engine, it can recapture that excess energy.

But besides that, you'll still probably want a Prius because its REAR SEATS CAN FOLD DOWN! The new civic hybrid STILL can't because of the hybrid battery.

I hope others will not be taken in by Hondascam 2006 as I was w/ the '03 civic hybrid. This is a "pretend hybrid" which will frustrate most drivers trying to save money on gas, especially if they see the constantly fully charged battery and grossly inflated fuel economy display. Given an unauthorized modification and by driving outside the law (speeding down hills, obstructing the flow of traffic, and coasting with the engine off), good milage around 50 can sometimes be attained in the '03. Most drivers will see less. Any new hybrid buyer must understand that anything that affects a regular car's milage will affect a hybrid's 5-fold - thus the poor milage in cold, short trips, wind, city driving, roof racks, highway driving, and rain. It gets great milage next to an SUV and is a fine car like a corolla, but it is not what Honda says it is. Don't expect the 2006 to be any different with its 15 kW bicycle motor. (Vote plug-in hybrids! I can't wait 'til more battery is crammed into these hybids and we can plug them into our windmill/solar/kinetic energy storage devices at home.)

boo, auto manufacturers are required by law in the U.S. to post the EPA mileage estimates. Since EPA, not Honda, reached the 47/48 conclusion, that is what Honda has to say it gets, even though it doesn't really. Similarly, it is almost impossible to reach 60mpg with the Prius, even though that's its EPA highway mileage figure.

I doubt very much a TDI VW in the Jetta will dust a Prius. First off, the TDI is dirty which is why it's not sold in CA/NY/VT/ME/MA. Secondly, numerous road tests have shown that the Prius out accelerates the TDI from 0-60 (assuming the TDI is auto). I get over 50 mpg with my Prius. I also don't have to visit the dealer as often. VW has a terrible dealer network and their reliability is on the bottom of the charts.

I am in the market for a new Civic Hybrid, but I also live most of the year in a Motor Home, and tow a car. Can I tow the Civic with all four wheels on the ground?
I know people tow Honda's Accords, and Odysseys, and Honda does not say yes or no.

I have an 2000 insight and in Vancouver, BC I get 55-58 mpg. I went to calgary with only one tank (40 lts) and there I got 80-100 mpg (because is flat...)

Shure I can move only another person and is not powerful up hill, but is the MORE ECONOMY GASOLINE CAR IN THE WORLD. Even beats at the smart car from mercedes benz.

Muffin

About 8 months ago, I purchased a 1981 Mercedes 300 diesel with 375,000 miles. It was previously owned by a mercedes shop owner. The motor should be good for another 125,000 miles. I was able to fill up with biodiesel once then the suppliers started running out of the fuel. MPG is around 27, the car is very substantial. I am becoming a fan of diesels and feel they are the hope for the future. I have heard of volkswagon buyers installing performance chips and running their golfs up to 175 horsepower and still maintaining a 45 mpg rate. That will smoke any prius or civic.

Hi

I own a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, and I get at least 40 MPG. I think this hybrid was rated at 44 MPG when I bought it in 2003, and sometimes I do think I get 44 MPG. Anyway, my comment is for people who own newer models and not getting the mileage they expect with their new hybrids. I think it is partly due to the AC system. My car was one of the newer models, and when my car stops AC also shuts off, so I am sure I am conserving even more gas and keeping to the rated MPG compared to people who still have their AC running when the car stops.

Hi,
I am wondering where all the Hybrid owners are going to take their battery packs when they are no longer able to hold a charge. What is it going to cost? Are you going to send these packs back to Japan or will they fill up the HazWaste sites here in the states?
Maybe the public should ask for a "slimmer" auto, an old technology, which will increase MPG!

Mike K.,

I agree with you on the need for "slimmer" cars, but I disagree about hybrid batteries.

I still can't understand why they are a target; all cars have batteries, yet nobody complains about these. At least hybrid batteries are beneficial and keep TONS of oil from being burned and TONS of CO2 and smog-forming emissions from being put into the air. Few parts of a car can be said to be beneficial like that (except maybe the catalytic converter).

Besides, we've already done research on hybrid batteries on this website (use the search engine on the right to find the article) and the batteries are recyclable and should last the life of the vehicle (even up to 15-20 years! these are not flashlight batteries..).

My '89 Crown Victoria will get 30 Imperial MPG on the highway. Considering the aerodynamics are terrible, and the car is least 2-3 times the weight of a Civic or Insight respectfully, the mileage is good. I have driven a 2001 Honda Civic and got 45 MPG. If my CV is twice the weight and a rotton wind slicer compared to the Civic and I don't have to dish out 20 grand than that is good for me. The longer I keep it the better it is for the environment. If I buy a new car than that is energy to make the new car plus iron ore and oil consumed for plastics etc. Get the max. use of the resources which built the CV. If I have to make payments for a new car than I would probably have to work somewheres on the weekend or eves. and burn even more fuel to go to work more often. Amen

Well, all I have to say is that I just bought a new civic (no, not a hybrid, sorry) to replace my 1990 dodge dakota (14 or 15 mpg was it's best). hybrid shmybrid--I can rally it all I want and drive 80+ miles an hour on the freeway (the speed limit is 75, which should be a big gas waster, but it's far between places here), and I can still get 33 mpg or better. Sure I paid a penny or two for it, but it was a lot cheaper than either the prius or civic hybrid, or the jetta tdi, for that matter. AND I don't have to worry about the batteries (in the hybrids) or my insturment panel or window switches or pretty much anything run by electricity (in the jettas) ceasing to work.

I own a 2005 Civic Hybrid and just made a round trip to Calgary from Spokane, Wa. Averaged 45 + both ways, pushing the speed limit a little. Took a little less than 3/4 tank each way. Boy gas is high in Canada $3.60 - $4.00 US per Gal. Around town I average an honest 50 and 45 on the freeway at 70 mph. Plenty of power to pass and excellent braking. If the 2006 is any better, I'll buy a second one. Going to look at the Accord pretty hard too. I am 6'5" and cannot get into a Prius or Highlander because of lack of headroom.

I bought the 2005 Prius in June. I don't drive in any particular way and I always seem to average about 45 mpg which is what I was led to expect.

the 2006 civic hybrid seem to cost around 21k. almost the same as the prius. I like the fold down back seat. I'll most likely go with the prius.

I don't know why Handa can't move the battery pack somewhere else. Toyota did it.

I am considering a 2006 Civic Hybrid as my 2006 Mercury Cougar is shot. I am not concerned with gas prices, it is more the environmental factor that is the reason I am seeking out a hybrid. My one concern, however, is routine maintanence. Has anyone heard if a "regular" mechanic can work on these cars, or is a hybrid like the Mini Cooper (you have to take it to a dealership just to get the oil changed!!! $150 per oil change). That is a concern of mine!

Mike,

Yes, all cars have batteries, and yes, their disposal is an important concern. Surely you can understand why people would have serious reservations about suddenly having more potentially harmful batteries to deal with on an exponential scale. It's not a concern that should easily be dismissed just because an old tech car has a battery.

Just got my 2006 Civic Hybrid today with Navigation. Drove it about 40 miles and it says I got 31 MPG. I was mostly in serious bumper-to-bumper traffic. I applied for the license plate "TRE HUGR" and will send pictures once it comes in :-)

The car is AWESOME. Definitely worth the $27,277.41 I paid out the door (includes 7% state tax). It cost me another $326 to buy an extended 5 year 60,000 mile warranty.

Hey, guys!

I took delivery of my new 2006 Civic Hybrid a little more than a week ago. I've driven it about 1500 miles (all work related) since.

I can tell ALL of you this much: The car definately DOES get 54 on the freeway - with the cruise control set - (here it comes) - at 58. If you push it to 60 miles an hour it drops to 47 or 48 miles per gallon. If you dare to push it up to the speed limit of 70 the mileage drops down around 30 or 32.

And forget all about soaring with the eagles at 10 miles an hour over the posted 70 mph speed limit - or 80 miles an hour - (everybody goes 10 over in Georgia) because then the tach pegs almost to the red line at every little hill or incline and the mileage drops down to 20. Yes.

Yep yep yep. Everything is just DANDY at 58 miles an hour - except when you look up in your rear view mirror and all you can see is the rear-view-mirror-wide word MACK spelled backwards from where that Mack truck just blasted up on your rear at 70 or 80 miles an hour and just PRAY TO GOD that his air brakes and JakeBrake are working and that his 30 tons of gravel don't shift TOO far foward if he manages to jump on his brakes in time to keep from nailing you from behind with his multi-ton NON HYBRID dump truck - assuming everything else works like it's supposed to.

You guys - check with me (if I'm still alive) in 6 months and I'll give you an update. But so far so good - I'm averageing at or above the Civic Hybrid's factory / EPA rating of 49 city and 51 highway.

But Honda makes you EARN every one of those MPG's the hard way - by pissing off every OTHER driver on the road who has to figure out a way to blast on by you without causing true mayhem.

Respectfully,

Bill Trail
Owner,
Penny Computer Systems & Custom Software, Inc.
657 River North Blvd.
Macon, GA 31211

478 742-3299 office
478 738-9588 fax

www.pennyfinance.com

"I can tell ALL of you this much: The car definately DOES get 54 on the freeway - with the cruise control set - (here it comes) - at 58. If you push it to 60 miles an hour it drops to 47 or 48 miles per gallon. If you dare to push it up to the speed limit of 70 the mileage drops down around 30 or 32."

Very interesting post Bill, and I particularly liked this part. It shows in part that transmission gearing has an impact, but especially just how much wind-resistance plays a big role at these speeds. The decrease in efficiency is almost exponential, just like the wind resistance.

Mgr,

I traded a 2005 automatic V6 Accord 4-dr EXL-Navi with 38,000 miles (all done in 9 months, thank you) for this '06 HCH. I maintain meticulous expense records and have proof of several (meaning maybe a dozen) 300 to 600 mile business round trips where I was able to eke out 37.2 or 37.3 mpg with that big 240hp V6.

Last year I had a 2005 4-cylinder automatic Accord 4-dr EXL-Navi and I recorded 44.15 on one 520-mile round trip Macon, GA to Selma, AL and back in one day. The car still had about 1/4 tank of gas when I got back to town.

Let's see. I also had a 2002 (or '03?) Odyssey which did two things really well. It went like a bat - and it got terrific gas mileage on long trips at 80 miles an hour - frequently 32 or 33.

I traded that for a new 2003 CR-V which was just awful. It's tiny little motor was always buzzing. It was very uncomfortable. It never came close to it's EPA rating. And it's left rear tire blew out at 9,000 miles and the Bridgestone people told me it was because the fuel overflow tube spilled gas directly onto the sidewall of the tire and that my repeated spilling of raw gasoline was directly to blame.

When I tried to explain that to Honda at their 800 customer service telephone number out in Southern California the guy passed me over to his manager - and his manager hung up on me.

As God is my witness - every word true.

My brother the college professor in Greensboro, NC, just emailed me an incredible European Honda web page (link) that showed the new production version of the Honda "Estate" (a wagon version of the European Accord) with a diesel engine that gets 77 miles per gallon.

Why aren't any of you talking about and DEMANDING that car? I WANT THAT ONE.

Bill Trail

Disappointed in PGH--
One of the big reasons I bought an 06 HCH is that
it will run in all electric mode (in low speed
cruise) but how do you know when its doing it?
Nobody seems to know, Honda or my dealer.

Still only getting an average 35MPG with my 06 HCH. I don't do much highway driving. Most of my driving is in Georgia traffic or quick runs to the gym or other local establishments. I still think the car is quite amazing, but I doubt the claims of 50+MPG. I did a highway test over 20 miles and tried to drive every mile for maximum MPG and still only accomplished 45MPG. The navigation system is the best I've ever seen, the steering is precise, and the overall quality of the car is high. I just can't believe I paid $27,500 for a CIVIC and can't get the MPG claimed on the sticker. I'll still update with photos of my car with the "Tree Hugger" license plate once it arrives!

"Still only getting an average 35MPG with my 06 HCH. I don't do much highway driving. Most of my driving is in Georgia traffic or quick runs. to the gym or other local establishments."

That is exactly why your average is not high. Quick trips are the worse when it comes to fuel economy because cold engines are much less efficient than engines that have a had a time to warm up and then operate at peak temperature for most of the trip.

If it's any consolation, that is true non-hybrids too, so whatever car you had previously was getting very crappy mileage (possibly under 20 mpg) during these quick runs.

Hope this helped.

Sat 12/10/2005

Hey, Eric,

I'm still getting 54mpg with my new '06 HCH on not-to-hilly highway trips with my cruise control set at 58. You KNOW it's 58 because those 3-inch high numbers up there on top of the dash SAY it's 58. (tongue in cheek) Wierd, but you gotta keep the cruise engaged or you'll spend too much time trying to get it back up to 58 or 60 after every little hill - and you'll end up down around 45 mpg.

Also I concur with Mgr's comments about cold engines and short trips. Mgr, do you work for Honda or own a Civic hybrid? Pardon if that was already covered in a previous or the generic room post.

Next time you take a relatively longer trip try this, Eric:

Drive it like you have a cracked raw egg, that's not cracked so bad that it's leaking yet, between your right foot and the gas pedal.

You're going to find out that it does WAY better than the 30's that you've been seeing.

Jump in it, zoom up to the gym or 7/11, driving it like an Acura TL, and you'll be lucky to get 20 mpg.

But drive it like a priest in a funeral and BADA BING - you gotta u-self a BALL game, dude.

If you're in Atlanta then you KNOW you're eating tonight at Alfredo's Italian on Cheshire Bridge Road. Ask for Tony and tell him crazy Bill Trail in Macon (100 miles south) sent you. It gets me a FREE MEAT BALL next time WE go - a meat ball like you never tasted in-a u life ! (and home-made cannoli that make-a-u slap-a u mama)

Remember: Drive Slow - be a Hero.

:^)

Bill Trail
Macon, Georgia
Saturday, December 10, 2005

"Mgr, do you work for Honda or own a Civic hybrid? Pardon if that was already covered in a previous or the generic room post."

I do not, but I write for Treehugger.com and I wrote the article about the Honda Civic hybrid '06 on this page we are posting comments on, so I've made some research on the subject (in fact, I first heard about the cold trip/getting bad MPG in relation to the Toyota Prius; someone was getting in the 30s mpg, so others asked how the car was used, and it was all for very short trips).

I guess nobody in the whole wide world can
can tell when their 06 HCH is running on just the
electric motor. Maybe they could repogram a ROM
so at least the auto stop light would come on.
I love this car don't make me wish I bought a
Prius.My mileage is bad right(32) now but-temp in 20's lots of hills and mostly short trips. It
really makes me wonder about non hybrids mileage.

You will not be able to tell when the HCH is in "golf cart mode" because the engine will still be recording RPMs (Honda assist motor) unlike the Prius (motor separate from engine). What the Civic needs is a "usage readout" like the Prius. I rented a Prius for a week (only got 45MPG) and could not stop watching the usage readout telling me what mode it was in. It also helped me squeeze out extra MPG by tweaking my driving habits to the readout.

Also, I have been in an Accord Hybrid and find the Civic Hybrid Auto-Stop system to be much more driver friendly. The Accord would shut the engine off every time the car went under a couple MPH. The Civic seems to know when I'm in bumper-to-bumper and does not shut the engine off every time. It also does not shut the engine off when the engine is still cold.

I figured out you can tell when your running on
just electric because the instantanteous MPG
gauge will go to max and stay there until the
ice starts back up,it did work for me.