Well, things like these are quite common at least in Austria. However, they suck quite often, since the maximum temperature and the preasure are bad.
Mine runs on gas. However, in the picture there is a electric plug, which makes me shake my head. Gas is much more economic.

Yes, these are common in Europe (at least the gas versions are, but I've seen electric ones too) and they will never catch on in the US because they're crap. When someone starts making heaters that will heat the water as fast as your shower pumps it out, then they might catch on. Otherwise you get these hot-cold-hot-cold showers that either burn or freeze!

I've used them in the UK. As Ron noted, they can't produce the amount of hot water to keep the shower comfortable - although it's not so noticable in England.

The reason acceptance would differ between UK & US is that in UK the building code requires (cold) water tanks to be placed in the attic (or it did when I lived there) and distribution is gravity-fed. In the US the building code requires the water tank to be in the basement and it is pressure-fed. The result in the USA is that much more water moves through the system - probably too fast for this type of heater.

Why do you have to heat hot water ?

I spent a half hour on the maker's web site and conclude that it would be pretty easy to try to cut a corner on money and end up with a unit underperforming in a high flow application.

In the US these are very common in long term residence hotel bathroom sinks and also in resorts with lots of isolated cabin units with small kitchenettes but central showers. My experience with them has been good: they must have been professionally spec'd out.

Home depot sells gas fired units that are subtantially larger than these in BTU output, and the claim was at pop that they could be made to work for a shower.

Theoretically, assuming there is a thermostat on the cold water feed input line, you could put these in the hot water line of an upstairs bathroom, and use it to get instant hot water with heat applied locally until the hot water from the main tank got all the way upstairs.

Another common use of these is in the recreational vehicle and yacht. People have plug ins at their campground/dock and understand that there are limits to flow in those settings.

What no one else has mentioned in this thread is the need to match it to a low flow shower head.

The reason why these suck is because they're European. After spending a lot of time and $$$ with tankless heaters, I've realized that the Japanese are the only ones who have figured out how to deal with different water pressures here in the US. They use fairly sophisticated computer algorithms to monitor and adjust temp & pressure. Their heaters are also more powerful (anything less than 160K BTU for a shower is totally inadequate in the US).

Our suitcase-sized Takagi gas heater is the only tankless that I don't hesitate to recommend.

I have encountered these in the UK and, as was previously stated, the shower aspect less than optimal. I have also had experience with solar water heaters (one instance in Memphis, TN, and another in San Anotnio, TX) and am far more impressed with solar water heating.

Our solar water heater was set up between the cold input line and the cold intake of the standard water heater. (That lets you still get hot water if you have protracted days of insufficient solar heating capacity.) Our solar unit was a 40 gal tank that fed into our 40 gal standard water heater. The effect was that we were able to host 9 other adults in our home and, despite the laundry and dishwashing requirements involved, even my wife and I were able to have nice hot showers when everyone was getting ready to go somewhere . . . that's 11 hot showers in sequence.

Unfortunately, even here in San ANtonio where we get 305 or so days of solar heating capabilities, it seems as though nobody else is interested in residential solar units. Our unit died, as did the owner of the company from which we got it, and I am looking at self installing the replacement.

I've had some experience with what the British call "Power Showers" and found them more than adequate for running a shower at American temps and waterflow. I'd would like to find the same here in the U.S. Say Something electric that you can set the max temperature/ tankless/ that can be either roughed in by a plumber or attached to a cold water tap with an adapter. Does anyone know of such a product available in the U.S?

I'd really like to find out what these are called in the U.S. asmy building averages 1 -2 days a month that we don't get hot water (last month it was 3 weekdays).

Regards,

Jonathan

This is the same product like Hott Wash
http://kyhorse.com/store/groomingequipment/hottwash.htm

At least from teh picture, they are almost identical.

Teh water heater is not very effective to create warm or hot water. It is lukewarm at best.

Paloma has been making high-efficiency gas water heaters for years now. I had one in an apartment in the early 90's and i can say from experience that it kicked ass! There was never any cold water, warm-up time was about 2 seconds and the max temp that it could reach would boil the skin off your back. It was gas-fired and used about the equiv. of a 5-gal tank of propane to heat water for three people who took showers every day and cooked at home. I think it was a PH12 or PH18 but it was a while ago so i'm not sure.

All right... let me start at the beginning.

I've used tankless on-demand heaters in Japan for years. They do not have any problem making the water hot enough.

Bernhard, economical is not renewable. There is only so much natural gas (correct me if that's a renewable resource, I may be off my rocker). "We have a lot right now" is *not* a valid argument.

DaveB, if I remember right, the Takagi was also the one I had outside my shower in Chiba. Thanks for remembering - it rung a bell. :)

Justin - isn't *this* a tankless water heater? Why are you saying that "tankless water heaters still beat them"?

For anyone who hasn't noticed, this is not a link about tankless water heaters. This is a link about a small, electric water heater with a mini-tank that sits at the point of use.

"The tanks are well insulated with glass so there is little heat lost."

The major benefit of this seems to be water waste; hot water is instant because it's right there. But since it's a mini-tank it has limited capacity (good for sink, bad for shower). Probably not too useful in the average house... seems a little more appropriate for an isolated bathroom.

Yes, this is NOT a tankless unit. Made me wonder what the news is supposed to be right away.

Tankless units for single tape are even smaller, and yes, they are economical and give you hot/warm water right away.

See this company (www.clage.de) for examples.

80 billon gallons of water is wasted in the U.S. this way - per what? day, month, year?

Ben, I don't think this one is considered tankless because it has a small tank. I meant tankless water heaters like those made by Takagi, which are supposed to be quite energy efficient, especially when run with propane or natural gas.

Maurits, the number quoted is the estimated amount wasted per year, sorry for the confusion.

The real issue here is that you need a lot of power to heat water electrically. The formula is Kilowatts of power (think volts times amps)= (flow in gallons per minute)* (desired temperature rise in degrees F)/6.83.

What this tells you that if you have 5 GPM and you want a 50 degree temperature rise (incoming at 70, and out at 120) then you need 36.6 KW, or 152 amps at 240 volts. This is not a problem, especially for new construction, but would require running new wiring for many homes. The costs savings are quite dramatic,not only in power but also in water consumed.

Baement water heaters are generally quite inefficient because you have to keep them on all the time at a set point that meets your highest need, usually bathing. And they have a large surface area to loose heat from. So no matter what the source of fuel, point of use heaters offer a more sustainable solution. The benefits are greatest if you can lower your main tank's setpoint to lukewarm and use the point of use tank to produce much hotter water like for shavinga showering.

John, the point-of-use gas heaters you mentioned sound good, especiall pair with the low flow showerhead. Do you know a specific brand of these heaters?

Several years ago we replaced a 72 gal. electric tank that feeds 3 bathrooms with one electric Supreme tankless. Although I am in Texas where the cold water is warmer than many parts of the country one just didn't do it for showers especially in winter so we put a second in parallel with the first. We did have to "rewire" for first and add new wiring for second tank. About the same time we had Electric Co. up our transformer and we put in a new main breaker box so we rarely notice the surge.
-Each heater can surge to 13 kW on startup then drops down, to what I don't know.
-We are not fully satisfied but have tolerated the hot cold hot cold no matter how we adjust the temps. I'm not sure I would keep these heater if we had small children here.

Now on to small electric tanks. ......

We had a major problem with hot water lines coming from electric heater that feeds kitchen and laundry room. It was going to cost minimum $1000 to blow out the lines.
-We took out the laundry room, big, tank heater and now have an extra utility closet.
-We purchased two 4 gal. Ariston; one under the kitchen sink and one beside the front load washer.
-Total cost for the two plus shipping plus replumbing by plumber and install was less than $1000 for the two.
-We are extremely pleased with them AND
-We had to make adjustments, which haven't been difficult, i.e., we have to use a longer wash cycle for dishwasher in winter to give the tank time to heat water for next cycle (not a problem if your dishwasher can heat water), you just can't leave the warm water running in the sink when working in the kitchen (great for conservation, and less water into the septic system), and, for us, no adjustment in the laundry room as our front load washer uses very little water and we usually wash in cold. We recently replaced our old front load WhiteWestinghouse with a new Kenmore front load that heats the water during cycle if needed. It also uses hardly any water for all cycles. A 4 gal. tank is very adequate for the new washer.
-The insulation seems to be very good because we don't detect any heat coming off the units
-We would have preferred the 6 gal., 110 volt in kitchen, but didn't want to add the extra expense of electrician for hard wiring (Ariston 2.5 and 4 gal have plugs but 6 gal has to be hard wired).
-The one under the kitchen sink just "died", still under warranty. We might spring for the 6 gal. and pay an electrician to hard wire it because two extra gallons would be a real "luxury". If we go with the 4 gal. little ol' granny, me, can install it so no installation cost.
BTW.. we are all electric so gas heaters was never and option. We're moving into a Yurt in the next couple of years; on grid. We plan on putting in solar heater and small electric tank, point of use. As I understand, electric tankless can NOT use pre-heated water, gas tankless can, and of course, small tank can.

One childs winning entry in Westinghouse? contest was to port out all the heat from refridgerator into hot water tank.

Tankless water heater use is up.
I replaced my old tank heater with a tankless water heater titan SCR2 from http://www.titanheater.com
the model is N-120

I bought a P10 S ariston water heater and dont know how to use it
any idea it also has an added shut off
I may not even use it

This unit you are showing is a TANK TYPE HEATER. Tsnkless means NO TANK. No tank means no stand by loss! Try a CHRONOMITE point of use water heater. They work and actualy are tankless. www.chronomite.com

I replaced my old tank heater with a tankless water heater

I decided to go with two Titan SCR2 N-120 for double the flow rate and double the heating power. Twin Titan configuration, they work great.

Tankless water heater @ http://www.Titanheater.com

With regard to the Titan heater (specifically the N120) has anyone used these in conjunction with a dishwasher?

Leo

Hi,

I am considering this (4-gallon) for use on a cold-water-only outside shower. The purpose is for quick showers after getting out of a pool. My thought is to use it in-line with the cold supply and keep the temp at 85-90 degrees. Would this be adequate? The unit would be in a outside bathroom (normal enclosed bathroom) that only has a cold water supply, but the shower is a pull chain on the outside. Thoughts?
Thanks!

Need a little advise:

Just thinking about building a house in Iowa, USA, for 2-3 people. 2-3 bedrooms, 2-3 bathrooms, kitchen, washer, dishwasher, etc. And I would like to go with tankless water heater.

There is a lot of info out there, but of course every company sells the best and others sell junk.

Any advise would be appreciated.

---- Andy
Iowa, USA

We have had Clage Heaters for over two years. One of the appliances broke after 4 months. Nowhere can we contact a service agent in Portugal. It appears to us that there is quite inadequate after sales service in Portugal, at least.