I like scooters and I like hybrids, but this seems like bad engineering to me. The typical scooter gets amazing gas mileage now. Why not put some engineers on making the current designs cheaper, more reliable or (dare I say it) safer. I can only imagine the nightmare that this thing would be to fix if it ever was sold to the public.

Something bigger (like about 500 - 750cc) would have me at the Honda dealer tomorrow, considering I am looking at getting one of their bigger sport touring bikes (1300cc) anyways. I can only dream of a fullsize hybrid cycle! Bring them on Honda (or any of the other cycle makers)!!

Why not make it all electric with a fuel cell for energy storage? You could get more performance with less weight. If I could get a real motorcycle like that, I'd be riding one now.

It's amazingly cute, but at 50cc it's just too silly; those engines are already capable of amazing mileage, but in SF nearly everyone needed a bigger engine for the hills. If Honda wants to do a hybrid (and I want them to, too) they should be putting it into a 200~350cc model.

And from the country that made Akira I still want a bike/scooter with gyroscopic stabilization; modernman had the right calculus.

Btw, just found a review at http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Honda_Dio-34264-1.html claiming that a 60% fuel efficiency gain on the Dio is not impressive: "mileage of Dio is poor. Two of my friends bought it and are regretting that they get mileage of only 25- 30 kmpl. In fact to these same people I had said you should buy Kinetic Nova...."

That works out to 60~70 mpg, though, which is what I think most American scooter riders are used to. I wonder what the Indian scooter makers are doing right?

Man that Just looks so damn cool.
I would love one of those!!!!!!!!

You have to understand that Japan is a huge inner market for the Japanese manufacturers. There (and most of Europe) 50cc is quite enough for the crowded inner city. People don't commute in these things, they live in the city.

Also in a lot of countries, you don't need to go to "motorcycle school" for a 50cc but anything bigger puts you in a classroom with 16-year olds.

Sure, fuel cells may be the future and any hybrid is a compromise. But this thing can be brought to market NOW and fuel cells will take years to get here.. not to mention the fuel depot network.

Please I need to buy a scooter to go to my job but I need a custom one (a three wheeler for stability). Do you have something like that?
Thank you. Olga Deulofeu

In response to Rachel's observation that Indian manufacturers are doing something right, i would like to say a couple of things.

In India, gas is very expensive, nearly $4 a gallon. Given that scooters/motorcycles are essentially bought here by middle class whose monthly income may be upto $250 and used for all their daily commuting needs (since public transport is AWFUL), the manufacturers here have done a lot of research on maximixing fuel efficiencies on 2 wheelers. apart from that, Indian 2 wheelers are of very high quality and reliability as a buyer expects to run his 2 wheeler for decades, expecting it to withstand abuse of poor quality gas and roads with minimum maintenance cost. everyone abroad should seriously check out the Indian scooters. they are really impressive works of engineering!

thanks

Btw, just found a review at http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Honda_Dio-34264-1.html claiming that a 60% fuel efficiency gain on the Dio is not impressive: "mileage of Dio is poor. Two of my friends bought it and are regretting that they get mileage of only 25- 30 kmpl. In fact to these same people I had said you should buy Kinetic Nova...."

That works out to 60~70 mpg, though, which is what I think most American scooter riders are used to. I wonder what the Indian scooter makers are doing right?

Posted by: Rachelkat at March 5, 2005 11:58 AM

The only thing that gets me with Honda's approach is that their "hybrid" vehicles don't fit
my definition of a true hybrid. To me, a true hybrid will have no direct or mechanical
drivetrain at all, it is basically an electric vehicle which has a gas motor ADDED to it,
which drives ONLY a generator or an alternator. The gas-electric approach is used by
virtually all large vehicles from earth mover dump trucks to railroads, because it is the
most efficient and long term reliable way to move the loads with size confinements. (yes,
I'm aware that these industries measure their fuel mileage in gallons per mile, but you
still have to consider the size of their loads) There's also the fact that a mechanical
drivetrain has a LOT of friction points, something that an electric drive system can nearly
eliminate.

I don't know yet enough of the research behind this, but I fail to see why this concept
can't be applied to smaller vehicles, add a battery array. I think what's going on is more
about R&D costs than true efficiency development (it's cheaper to add an electric motor
to an existing conventional drive system than it is to develop a new all electric drive
system). Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what it looks like to me.

I'm interested in building a true hybrid scooter, basically by starting with an electric one
and adding a lawn-mower engine attached to a standard car alternator... (I'm not going for
aesthetics [grin]) I just don't quite have the money to play with that yet (but I hope my
ideas are worth something). I wanted to see what others had already done, which is how I
found this article. Ideas, comments, constructive criticism, all welcome.

»D-cat